Is America a Police state?

[Road Warrior]

True, but as a personal choice, I always reserve the word "revolt" for opened armed resistance. Our culture waters down too many words as it is like "The War on Poverty" by exaggerating them to the point where the original word is almost meaningless. If a politician is castigated for some impropriety they are said to have been "lynched". Really? I doubt the people who write that crap could stomach seeing what a real vigilante lynching was like.

Sorry for the rant. Yes, I like to see people showing a deep concern for the direction of their nation by attending rallies and openly demonstrating.

 

[Revoltingest]

Your rants suit me just fine.

 

[Road Warrior]

Thanks!

 

[painted wolf]

You do realize that almost all of those links showed that the people who used "police state tactics" were in the wrong and were either fired, successfully sued or otherwise forced to admit they were wrong.

I'm not saying it never happens. People in power sometimes overstep their bounds. It's not right, but it happens. In the cases you presented, many showed how the system works even when it is the police or the prosecutor(s) who are in the wrong.

just to add to what Revoltingest said... and yeesh, I have to agree with him AGAIN...

The other effect is one of chilling... subtle intimidation of the public. Knowing that something as tame as donating money to the wrong charity or going to the wrong protest can get you on the government watch list.
And that the people that can make your life hell will at best get a scolding.

Just like the idea that you can be violated for anything by the police.

Ladies and gents go right ahead and protest... but get ready to bend over and cough.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

just to add to what Revoltingest said... and yeesh, I have to agree with him AGAIN...

My condolences for suffering such abject disgrace.

Tis interesting how easy it is for lawmakers to considering dispensing with constitutional restrictions on their authority when their purpose seems so good......
U.S. ban sought on cell phone use while driving | Reuters
Yet they fail to realize that if they have the ability to set aside the Constitution for betterment, this is also the ability to set it aside for evil.

 

[painted wolf]

My condolences at suffering such abject disgrace.

Alas, it is a burden I shall have to learn to live with.

Tis interesting how easy it is for lawmakers to considering dispensing with constitutional restrictions on their authority when their purpose seems so good......
U.S. ban sought on cell phone use while driving | Reuters
Yet they fail to realize that if they have the ability to set aside the Constitution for betterment, this is also the ability to set it aside for evil.

It seems
lawmakers judge their own success by how many laws they pass (or prevent if on the other side) not on the quality of the laws they pass/prevent.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

lawmakers judge their own success by how many laws they pass (or prevent if on the other side) not on the quality of the laws they pass/prevent.

Regarding that theme, the politicians battle cry I fear most is "We must do something....& fast!".
When laws are given great power & little thought about consequences, look out.

 

[Oryonder]

I've recently had three incidences with cops in the last three months. The first was for a cop questioning me for pulling into a supermarket after he started following me. He felt it was suspicious, I wanted sandwich meat. The second was in New Hampshire supposedly for pulling out in front of someone (neither me or my passenger was aware that happened). He asked me to get out of the car and searched me for drugs because I was acting nervous and my name was similar to someone they were looking for. (He asked me why I was acting nervous, so I told him it was because a cop had me get out of the car on the interstate.) The third was in my apartment, when the same cop from the 1st incident came through my front yard with a flashlight, asking for a guy named "Roy," and did a cursory search of my apartment for the person in question.

Now, I'm sure the third incident was practical. If there was a person they were looking for in the neighborhood, I'm perfectly fine with them asking questions. Problem is, I'm on a dirt road with three other houses. And all the recent incidences are leaving me a tad nervous whenever I see a cop car. I am perfectly law abiding with not even a speeding ticket, but it is very nerve racking to be put under suspicion multiple times in such a short amount of time.

Especially when these guys have guns and the weight of the law.

Just wait until the debt bubble implodes and we start to see Job cuts to public servants and military .. cuts to welfare, medicare, pensons and so forth.

Then we will really see what a police state looks like.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just wait until the debt bubble implodes and we start to see Job cuts to public servants and military .. cuts to welfare, medicare, pensons and so forth.
Then we will really see what a police state looks like.

How is belt tightening related to a police state?
To have less of a nanny state is hardly authortarian.

Btw, welcome aboard!

 

[painted wolf]

I think the point may be... that we would see increased discord among the population if there were a more severe financial melt-down... a la, Europe.

In that case, the classic response by governments is to clamp down with more draconian restrictions on rights to limit the populations ability to stir up trouble.

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

I think the point may be... that we would see increased discord among the population if there were a more severe financial melt-down... a la, Europe.
In that case, the classic response by governments is to clamp down with more draconian restrictions on rights to limit the populations ability to stir up trouble.
wa:do

Hmmm.....possible, but I don't see it as closely related.

 

[painted wolf]

Hmmm.....possible, but I don't see it as closely related.

Nor do I, except as a thought experiment.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

More about how our prison system is being turned into a profit making machine for businesses.

Prisoners, whose ranks increasingly consist of those for whom the legitimate economy has found no use, now make up a virtual brigade within the reserve army of the unemployedwhose ranks have ballooned along with the U.S. incarceration rate. The Corrections Corporation of America and G4S (formerly Wackenhut), two prison privatizers, sell inmate labor at subminimum wages to Fortune 500 corporations like Chevron, Bank of America, AT&T and IBM.
These companies can, in most states, lease factories in prisons or prisoners to work on the outside. All told, nearly a million prisoners are now making office furniture, working in call centers, fabricating body armor, taking hotel reservations, working in slaughterhouses or manufacturing textiles, shoes and clothing, while getting paid somewhere between 93 cents and $4.73 per day.
Rarely can you find workers so pliable, easy to control, stripped of political rights and subject to martial discipline at the first sign of recalcitrance — unless, that is, you traveled back to the 19th century when convict labor was commonplace nationwide. Indeed, a sentence of “confinement at hard labor” was then the essence of the American penal system.
​

Source: 21st century chain gangs - Crime - Salon.com

Hattip to Ed Brayton: The Outrage of Prison Labor | Dispatches from the Culture Wars

wa:do

 

[Revoltingest]

More about how our prison system is being turned into a profit making machine for businesses.
Source: 21st century chain gangs - Crime - Salon.com
Hattip to Ed Brayton: The Outrage of Prison Labor | Dispatches from the Culture Wars
wa:do

It actually sounds like a pretty good plan.
A friend worked in a federal prison, & the corruption associated
with gov't run institutions looks at least as bad as privatizing it.

Oh, he was a federal marshal....not an inmate.

 

[painted wolf]

It actually sounds like a pretty good plan.
A friend worked in a federal prison, & the corruption associated
with gov't run institutions looks at least as bad as privatizing it.

Oh, he was a federal marshal....not an inmate.

I feel a bit squeamish about using inmates as essentially free labor for major corporations. As much as I want to talk to someone in America when I call for tec support... I kind of want that person to be paid a fair wage and free.

I think when you add the contractual 90% fill rates on for-profit prisons on top of this, it starts to get worrisome.

wa:do

ps... at least your friend had the right end of the stick. I also have a family member (by marriage) who worked in the prison system, in California. Hell of a rough job.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I feel a bit squeamish about using inmates as essentially free labor for major corporations. As much as I want to talk to someone in America when I call for tec support... I kind of want that person to be paid a fair wage and free.

I think when you add the contractual 90% fill rates on for-profit prisons on top of this, it starts to get worrisome.

wa:do

ps... at least your friend had the right end of the stick. I also have a family member (by marriage) who worked in the prison system, in California. Hell of a rough job.

I have never understood how their promise of a minimum of 90% occupancy capacity is constitutional. Very clearly justice is NOT the goal when you are promising there will be inmates, which means those ******** will have to pushing for more punishments and less decriminalization and legalization least they risk a breech of contract. And not too mention the money the state makes from such an asinine form of "justice."
I knew they were using inmates for labor, which at first I did support because so many people that have been to jail or prison have such a hard time finding work and the potential of having a job lined up when they are released, but then I learned of how severely underpaid they are.
Our prison system, private or government, is just such a horrible mess. And unfortunately our society is so hard on crime I don't foresee any real or effective prison reform that is designed to help rehabilitate inmates happening any time soon. But then again, especially in the private sector, they love to claim how psychologically damaging punishments like long-term isolated confinement are helpful.

 

[Revoltingest]

I feel a bit squeamish about using inmates as essentially free labor for major corporations. As much as I want to talk to someone in America when I call for tec support... I kind of want that person to be paid a fair wage and free.
I think when you add the contractual 90% fill rates on for-profit prisons on top of this, it starts to get worrisome.
wa:do
ps... at least your friend had the right end of the stick. I also have a family member (by marriage) who worked in the prison system, in California. Hell of a rough job.

To work is a positive thing for inmates.
Nay, not just positive, but essential for many on a path to rehabilitation.
Tricky it can be to employ them, but I see it as a worthy goal.

 

[painted wolf]

To work is a positive thing for inmates.
Nay, not just positive, but essential for many on a path to rehabilitation.
Tricky it can be to employ them, but I see it as a worthy goal.

It's not the work itself that is the problem... but as Ed points out, these are not rehabilitation programs and the jobs they are being made to do are not going to help them find employment outside of jail... nor are they being paid anywhere near resembling anything but sweat shop amounts.

By all means have them work... but at least give them the dignity pay them better than sweat shop workers and let them save the money so they can afford to start honest lives outside of prison.

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

ps... ironically enough, it is illegal to import anything manufactured by prison labor from overseas. Perhaps they are protecting their market share? :cover:

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not the work itself that is the problem... but as Ed points out, these are not rehabilitation programs and the jobs they are being made to do are not going to help them find employment outside of jail... nor are they being paid anywhere near resembling anything but sweat shop amounts.
By all means have them work... but at least give them the dignity pay them better than sweat shop workers and let them save the money so they can afford to start honest lives outside of prison.

All valid issues.
No argument.
So move along people....no fur will fly here today.