Is atheism a religion?

[Bear Wild]

I think you should ask them, but based what I read seen and the atheists I know they worship nature, and the hope for the future rests in humanity not Gods.

That is one aspect of atheism called religious naturalism which has a developed metaphysics and approaches aspects of morality. There are a great number of philosophers that can be read on the subjects. Although if have never asked if they consider themselves as atheists. The term includes far to many different views which may even include aspects of the supernatural if you take the term to mean not believing in a god. Those who believe in religious naturalism do hope that the future rests in humanity but rather in natural world which includes humans.

 

[lukethethird]

Atheism is not a religion any more than Theism is. It is a religious belief that no Gods exist. The Atheist Churches would be an example of a religion that believes in atheism.

Agreed, and west is east and up is down, two can play this game.

 

[shunyadragon]

Agreed, and west is east and up is down, two can play this game.

No game, simply describing the fact that atheist churches exist.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

For one who is "truly enlightened" you really make no sense.

Why do people seem so threatened and insecure over a silly tag? Even my wife said I should change it, because some people would focus more on the tag, than what I was saying. I told her no one would feel that way. If it makes you feel better, put "NOT" in front of it. I think "ecco" applied my point best(post #111). But let me explain.

I am not worrried about embarrassment. There is nothing illogical about saying any belief about God is a religious belief. Atheists just won't admit it because they want nothing to do with religion. That is "atheist logic".

You state that ANY BELIEFS regarding God is a RELIGIOUS BELIEF. So if a person does or does not believe(non-belief) in a God, it is still a belief about God(ANY BELIEF). Therefore, both are RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. This turns the meaning of the word "non-belief", into the word "belief". This is a logical fallacy(equivocation or etymological). Because of this corruption of Logos, you are able to add the rest of your narrative. Which is equally fallacious(confirmation bias, false conclusion). My point was to extend your logic to apply to theists. Since ALL beliefs are religious beliefs, and all Theists are religious believers, and since Atheism is a religious belief, then Theists can also be Atheists, but won't admit it. But you are correct that this is illogical, which was exactly the point I was trying to make. Do you understand now?

The point you seem to ignore, in this game of semantics, is that a non-belief or non-worship, means exactly that. Therefore, Atheism is not a religion, and not a place of worship.

 

[lukethethird]

If atheism is a religion, then what the eff have Christians been doing for the last 2000 years?

 

[Truly Enlightened]

If I need to repeat myself many times I will. I do NOT consider atheism a religion no more than I consider Theism a religion. You added a key word; the 'evolution of the concept of the church, or may be described as a 'house of worship. The atheists who are members of these congregations do function as organized churches and/or places of worship, and therefore a religion.

Just more double talk and selective semantics.

Atheism is not a religion any more than Theism is. It is a religious belief that no Gods exist. The Atheist Churches would be an example of a religion that believes in atheism.

With one side of your mouth you claim Atheism is NOT a Religion, but is a religious belief that no God(s) exists. This would suggest that Atheist and Theistic beliefs are both religious. This is intuitively and logically flawed, since all religions are based on their religiosity which includes their beliefs. Atheism has no religious belief components. It's like saying that birth and death is under the same heading of "life"(end of life, and beginning of life). One IS life, and the other isn't. Trying to equivocate the terms "religious belief" and "religion" is blatantly fallacious, redundant, and intellectually dishonest. All religions require a religious belief. Atheism does not, therefore, not a religious belief or a Religion. Out of the other side of your mouth, you claim that non-religious Atheists also attend, practice, and worship their non-belief in God, at Atheist churches. It is amazing this level of cognitive bias. Every biblical and literal definition of a church clearly includes "place of worship", "house or body of Christ", "place of prayer", "a religious body" or a "religious gathering". You simply ignored all of the religious trappings that defines a church, and you stop reading and interpreting after "A building or structure for public gathering..."

So, if you want to believe that Atheists worship their disbelief in the existence of a God(s), or that Atheism is a RELIGIOUS BELIEF(not a non-religious belief), or that Atheists attend Atheist churches to worship, then go ahead. No free rational thinker would barely bat an eyelid. Fortunately, most people don't need to create an entire narrative by exploiting the definition of terms, to suit whatever narrative they choose.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think you should ask them, but based what I read seen and the atheists I know they worship nature, and the hope for the future rests in humanity not Gods.

They "worship nature?" What suggeste this to you?

 

[shunyadragon]

They "worship nature?" What suggeste this to you?

The atheists view of the reverence toward nature and not God(s), also the faith in human morals and ethics as described in the humanist Humanist Manifesto.

Your a little bit spliting frog hairs trying to find holes in the matter of fact that atheists do have organized churches (houses of worship) or what ever you want to call them.

I find it odd, and very egocentric, that the word religion has become hot potato that everybody says 'not me' everyone else has a religion, and a stone to throw at people who believe differently. Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Jews, atheists, many churches, and other belief systems claim; not us, but everyone else has a religious belief, or religion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The atheists view of the reverence toward nature and not God(s), also the faith in human morals and ethics as described in the humanist Humanist Manifesto.

So:
- you assume that all atheists have a "view of reverence toward nature"
- you equate "reverence" with "worship"
- you think there's something in the Humanist manifesto that requires its adherents to "worship"
- you think that all atheists adhere to the Humanist manifesto.

Your a little bit spliting frog hairs trying to find holes in the matter of fact that atheists do have organized churches (houses of worship) or what ever you want to call them.

I'm not trying to find holes; I'm trying to find coherence in your position that seems to be built on a stack of bad assumptions.

I find it odd, and very egocentric, that the word religion has become hot potato that everybody says 'not me' everyone else has a religion, and a stone to throw at people who believe differently. Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Jews, atheists, many churches, and other belief systems claim; not us, but everyone else has a religious belief, or religion.

Not everyone; only the religious. There are plenty of irreligious theists.

 

[ecco]

Sorry but your interpretation of my logic is completely illogical.

It's not just my interpretation, is it?

 

[ecco]

I do not think you have read my posts or references. The definitions evolve. If the atheists want to call their 'House of Worship' an Atheist Church, which they do, than it is obvious the definition today in 'use' includes Atheist Churches.

From a previous post:

"The article clearly described atheist worship services no matter how you want to narrowly twist and interpret definitions to justify your personal agenda. THEY ARE HOUSES OF WORSHIP according to those that worship there event though they are Atheist Churches."

When there are multiple usages and "definitions" of words, I'll go with Webster and other dictionaries, not whatever someone decides works for them at the moment. A lot of people try to misuse words all the time. I'm sure you have seen it just in these forums as I have.

There ain't no such thing as an atheist church.

 

[shunyadragon]

So:
- you assume that all atheists have a "view of reverence toward nature"

No

- you equate "reverence" with "worship"

Yes.

- you think there's something in the Humanist manifesto that requires its adherents to "worship"

No

- you think that all atheists adhere to the Humanist manifesto.

No, I never and again and again NEVER made any statements of generalizations of ALL.

I'm not trying to find holes; I'm trying to find coherence in your position that seems to be built on a stack of bad assumptions.

Your attempts at finding holes is clearly equated with your bogus assertion of a stack of bad assumptions

Not everyone; only the religious. There are plenty of irreligious theists.

Yes there are plenty of irreligious believers and non-believers in all possible belief systems. Again the bogus egocentric assumption found in many belief systems; 'not me just everyone else.'

My point is clear and specific there are organized atheist churches (houses of worchip or other words you feel comfortable with) that have organized services of worship as referenced in the citation.

 

[ecco]

I think you should ask them, but based what I read seen and the atheists I know they worship nature, and the hope for the future rests in humanity not Gods.

I'm an atheist. I like nature. Sometimes I'm in awe of nature. I do not worship nature. No atheist that I personally know worships nature.

wor·ship​

/ˈwərSHəp/
noun
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.​

Once again, you are playing loose and fast with words to suit yourself.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm an atheist. I like nature. Sometimes I'm in awe of nature. I do not worship nature. No atheist that I personally know worships nature.

wor·ship​

/ˈwərSHəp/
noun
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.​

Once again, you are playing loose and fast with words to suit yourself.

No, just referencing atheists and how they describe their worship services in the references, Of course, not all atheists belong to atheist churches.

Your being anal about definitions. If it bothers you terribly. 'The services of atheist churches show reverence for nature and the hope of humanity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No


Yes.



No


No, I never and again and again NEVER made any statements of generalizations of ALL.



Your attempts at finding holes is clearly equated with your bogus assertion of a stack of bad assumptions



Yes there are plenty of irreligious believers and non-believers in all possible belief systems. Again the bogus egocentric assumption found in many belief systems; 'not me just everyone else.'

My point is clear and specific there are organized atheist churches (houses of worchip or other words you feel comfortable with) that have organized services of worship as referenced in the citation.

The mere fact that a group meets on Sunday mornings does not make it religious.

The mere fact that a group caters to the needs of irreligious people does not make it religious.

The mere fact that a news article uses a "church" metaphor to describe a group does not make the group religious.

The real facts are that Sunday Assembly and similar groups are generally completely non-doctrinal: they explicitly say that all people of all beliefs are welcome. They aren't even exclusively atheist.

It's not "egocentric" to point that your inability - or unwillingness - to represent these organizations fairly says nothing about those groups, but plenty about you.

 

[shunyadragon]

If atheism is a religion, then what the eff have Christians been doing for the last 2000 years?

Good question. I my view practicing ancient Roman and mythical rituals grounded in the ancient mythology of Babylonian, Canaanite, Ugarit, and ancient tribal traditions of blood sacrifice of animals and humans.

 

[shunyadragon]

The mere fact that a group meets on Sunday mornings does not make it religious.

True. So what?!?!?! I meet at Sunday mornings at the local coffee house and it is not showing reverence nor worship of anything, but an occasional sacrifice of spilled coffee,

The mere fact that a group caters to the needs of irreligious people does not make it religious.

True. So what?!?!?!?!

The mere fact that a news article uses a "church" metaphor to describe a group does not make the group religious.

It was not the news article making the claim.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

True. So what?!?!?! I meet at Sunday mornings at the local coffee house and it is not showing reverence nor worship of anything, but an occasional sacrifice of spilled coffee,



True. So what?!?!?!?!



It was not the news article making the claim.

It's you making the claim. You linked to news stories a couple of times.

I get that some religious people are so deep into it that they can't even fathom how someone can approach the world without a religious mindset. Is this what's happening with you?

 

[ecco]

I find it odd, and very egocentric, that the word religion has become hot potato that everybody says 'not me' everyone else has a religion, and a stone to throw at people who believe differently. Jehovah Witnesses, Muslims, Jews, atheists, many churches, and other belief systems claim; not us, but everyone else has a religious belief, or religion.

There ya go again. Throwing "atheists" in with religious people. We Are Not Religious. In the long history of religion and religions, it is the religious who have thrown the stones.

It wasn't atheists in Europe that fought against Catholics, it was Protestants.
It wasn't atheists in Europe that fought against Protestants, it was Catholics.
It wasn't atheists that invaded the lands of Islam.
It wasn't atheists that forced Native American children off the Reservation and into religious boarding schools and churches.
I wasn't atheists that forced Protestants to leave Europe it was other Protestants.

Stop trying to sully atheists by throwing us in with your religious masses.

 

[ecco]

No, just referencing atheists and how they describe their worship services in the references, Of course, not all atheists belong to atheist churches.

"not all atheists"?!? How about damn few.

Your being anal about definitions. If it bothers you terribly. 'The services of atheist churches show reverence for nature and the hope of humanity.

And I can also get anal about the correct usage of contractions.
The word "your" should not be used in place of "you are". The correct usage is "you're", where an apostrophe takes the place of a space and the letter "a".

If I get anal about word definitions, especially in forums, is because I have seen people repeatedly, intentionally and deceitfully misuse and misapply words like "belief", "believe" and "faith".

Now you come along doing the same thing with words like "church" and "worship" and "religion".

You'll note that I'm not the only one telling you, as nicely as possible, that you're very wrong.