Is Belief (or Lack Thereof) a Choice?

[mikkel_the_dane]

I think it is silly for you to nitpick over what is obvious - that no matter what beliefs people have, they all operate in this same reality. No matter what their beliefs might be, the 'rules' of this reality will not distinguish between them.

No, it is not the same reality as actually the same. That is simple. We are not thinking the same, so it is not one to one the same reality.

 

[Heyo]

Are you suggesting that thinking plays second fiddle to feelings - and all the time?

Thinking plays second fiddle to feelings, conventions and habits - most of the time.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...
Sure but I have come to realize that my brain can create these feelings regardless of actual reality.
...

Where is this actual reality? I can't reach it with any of my 5 senses. I have found no scientific instruments, that can measure it. And when I google the scientific theory of actual reality, I can't find the theory of it.
So where is it?

 

[Mock Turtle]

No, it is not the same reality as actually the same. That is simple. We are not thinking the same, so it is not one to one the same reality.

The laws of physics don't depend upon the 'reality' of the individual. That was what I was trying to get at - the base reality that affects us all, until proven otherwise, and regardless of beliefs.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Thinking plays second fiddle to feelings, conventions and habits - most of the time.

But hopefully not for scientists.

 

[RestlessSoul]

No I am my brain. Me the brain is the observer.
No reason to think anything else is needed.



Sure but I have come to realize that my brain can create these feelings regardless of actual reality.



Yes, subconsciously, my brain can create many inner voices. Like when I'm dreaming. I hear people in my dreams telling me things.
This doesn't mean these voices have any reality other than that which my brain has created.

You are not your brain, by any definition. Even if consciousness resides in the brain and nowhere else, it patently isn’t the whole of you. And nor is your conscious self the whole of you, for what of the unconscious mind?

 

[Curious George]

If belief were not a choice, we would observe uniform statistical distribution, of the gods people believe in, all over the world.

This is a non sequitur.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well, that is cultural in part as I know of at least one other way to claim what science is.

Whatever it is, it usually isn't a religion though - apart from the dedication aspect.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The laws of physics don't depend upon the 'reality' of the individual. That was what I was trying to get at - the base reality that affects us all, until proven otherwise, and regardless of beliefs.

You are taking so much philosophy for granted that it amounts to a religion of physical reality.

 

[Mock Turtle]

We all have to find a way to live in reality, sure. For some, just living without questioning what it means to be alive might be enough. For others, the search for meaning and purpose beyond our finite selves and our material and emotional concerns is important. This involves asking the big questions, even if they are unanswerable.

Who said anything as to not doing these things? Perhaps many just don't choose to go down the religion rabbit holes. Simply because religions exist is no validation as to their truths.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Whatever it is, it usually isn't a religion though - apart from the dedication aspect.

Well, it is in it different cultural versions based on in effect philosophy.

 

[Mock Turtle]

You are taking so much philosophy for granted that it amounts to a religion of physical reality.

Not really. I did say base reality - that which few would argue over - apart from here on RF.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Who said anything as to not doing these things? Perhaps many just don't choose to go down the religion rabbit holes. Simply because religions exist is no validation as to their truths.

There is no validation to any claim of what objective reality is, other than it is different from your mind. Stop doing philosophy and learn to notice that you are doing that.

 

[Mock Turtle]

No, it is not the same reality as actually the same. That is simple. We are not thinking the same, so it is not one to one the same reality.

You prove that the laws of physics behave differently when we line up people with different religious beliefs and expect anything we do to them similarly will somehow depend upon what belief they have.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There is no validation to any claim of what objective reality is, other than it is different from your mind. Stop doing philosophy and learn to notice that you are doing that.

I'm not doing philosophy but just trying to get agreement as to some reality that we all share regardless of any other beliefs.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Not really. I did say base reality - that which few would argue over - apart from here on RF.

Well, here is the joke. It only happens here and all the books of the past and current sites on the Internet on the problem of knowledge are all written by me through time.
That you haven't learned how come it is methodological naturalism is your problem, not mine.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You prove that the laws of physics behave differently when we line up people with different religious beliefs and expect anything we do to them similarly will somehow depend upon what belief they have.

There are no proof in science. It is methodological naturalism and evidence, that is not proof.
Please learn how come it is methodological naturalism.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not doing philosophy but just trying to get agreement as to some reality that we all share regardless of any other beliefs.

Yes, you are. You have just learned it as folk belief as a part of your culture. Reality is a cultural construct and I won't agree with you based on your belief system. I have another one.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well, here is the joke. It only happens here and all the books of the past and current sites on the Internet on the problem of knowledge are all written by me through time.
That you haven't learned how come it is methodological naturalism is your problem, not mine.

Well I'm not a philosopher and don't claim to be one, even though I did read a bit in my youth.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There are no proof in science. It is methodological naturalism and evidence, that is not proof.
Please learn how come it is methodological naturalism.

Just do the experiment and report back to me.