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Is book banning becoming epidemic in the US?

Is the growing of surge of book bannings in the US a good thing or a bad thing?

  • GOOD

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • BAD

    Votes: 13 92.9%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
A recent report from PEN America, a book ban was enacted in U.S. school districts every 3 1/2 hours between July 2021 and July 2022. Nearly 140 school districts in 32 states issued more than 2,500 book bans during the 2021-2022 school year.

Wow!

But let's take a look at one book, "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee. Since the 1960s, the book has faced challenges from inclusion in classrooms and libraries because of its language and subject matter. In 2019, the American Library Association listed it as No. 15 in its top 100 most banned and challenged books of the last decade.

Now, one of the obvious reasons is the book's use of the "N-word." It is, in fact, written on the pages of the book 44 times. Even Scout (the young daughter of Atticus Finch) asks her father, "do you defend n*****s?"

But how does Atticus answer? And how, in the story, does Atticus treat his own black servant, Calpurnia? Doesn't he even approve of Calpurnia's right to admonish his own child (Scout) over her insult to her young guest for pouring syrup over his dinner?

I think the fact that Scout asks the question is an opportunity for her -- and for every reader of the book -- to learn something important and profound about how we treat (versus we perhaps ought to treat) others.

Do you approve of banning any books? If so, which ones would you ban?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
A recent report from PEN America, a book ban was enacted in U.S. school districts every 3 1/2 hours between July 2021 and July 2022. Nearly 140 school districts in 32 states issued more than 2,500 book bans during the 2021-2022 school year.

Wow!

But let's take a look at one book, "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee. Since the 1960s, the book has faced challenges from inclusion in classrooms and libraries because of its language and subject matter. In 2019, the American Library Association listed it as No. 15 in its top 100 most banned and challenged books of the last decade.

Now, one of the obvious reasons is the book's use of the "N-word." It is, in fact, written on the pages of the book 44 times. Even Scout (the young daughter of Atticus Finch) asks her father, "do you defend n*****s?"

But how does Atticus answer? And how, in the story, does Atticus treat his own black servant, Calpurnia? Doesn't he even approve of Calpurnia's right to admonish his own child (Scout) over her insult to her young guest for pouring syrup over his dinner?

I think the fact that Scout asks the question is an opportunity for her -- and for every reader of the book -- to learn something important and profound about how we treat (versus we perhaps ought to treat) others.

Do you approve of banning any books? If so, which ones would you ban?

I don't approve of banning any books. They're not really being outlawed or anything. People can still purchase them, possess them, or check them out from libraries which have them.

When it comes to school districts banning them in the school libraries, that may be slightly different.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I don't approve of banning any books. They're not really being outlawed or anything. People can still purchase them, possess them, or check them out from libraries which have them.

When it comes to school districts banning them in the school libraries, that may be slightly different.
When I was in Grade 9, in a private boy's boarding school in the small town of Newmarket, Ontario (a school run by Quakers), I read Robert Graves's "I Claudius," and "Claudius the God," two books that contained all sorts of naughty material (including the orgiastic contest run by Claudius' wife Messalina. That's because the book was in the school library -- and it really was very sophisticated stuff for 1962! But it was there, unapologetically.

So was the very racy book by American author James Baldwin, "Giovanni's Room." It had a homosexual theme. I was thrilled. And I read it in school, with approval of the school board.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
I think the way you fight bad speech, is with good speech. And I am in favor of freedom of speech, whereas I think that neither the left or the right is. These are probably the most constant views I've had in my entire life.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
In schools the reading assignments tend to come with lessons about the content, sometimes controversial. It seems most current book bans are based on adults not allowing children to accept changing norms in the 21st century. It strikes me as 1. not trusting kids to make to make their own moral judgments and 2. that adults are afraid that their own social attitudes will be challenged. So insecure adults wanting to influence their kids in ways that might backfire.

I do think there are book that are too complex and/or unsuitable for kids due to their lack of develoment and maturity. I wouldn't call these banned books, rather labeled unsuitable, and adults expressing some duty as educators.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
In schools the reading assignments tend to come with lessons about the content, sometimes controversial. It seems most current book bans are based on adults not allowing children to accept changing norms in the 21st century. It strikes me as 1. not trusting kids to make to make their own moral judgments and 2. that adults are afraid that their own social attitudes will be challenged. So insecure adults wanting to influence their kids in ways that might backfire.
But we are challenged with these controversial themes in Shakespeare, too. Anti-semitism in "The Merchant of Venice" or racial prejudice in "Othello" and "Titus Andronicus." I have no difficulty at all talking about these themes with quite young people -- especially here in Toronto which is so very multicultural.

And I find that kids easily cope with sexual matters, too. My best friend has two kids, 6 and 9. The older boy, when he was 7, directly asked my lover and I "can two boys be married?" We, and his parents, simply answered "yes," and moved on. He is turning out to be an absolutely great kid -- not sexualized at all yet, but completely unconcerned about people who are different. And he's unconcerned because the people around him, the people he trusts, are likewise unconcerned.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
A recent report from PEN America, a book ban was enacted in U.S. school districts every 3 1/2 hours between July 2021 and July 2022. Nearly 140 school districts in 32 states issued more than 2,500 book bans during the 2021-2022 school year.

Wow!

But let's take a look at one book, "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee. Since the 1960s, the book has faced challenges from inclusion in classrooms and libraries because of its language and subject matter. In 2019, the American Library Association listed it as No. 15 in its top 100 most banned and challenged books of the last decade.

Now, one of the obvious reasons is the book's use of the "N-word." It is, in fact, written on the pages of the book 44 times. Even Scout (the young daughter of Atticus Finch) asks her father, "do you defend n*****s?"

But how does Atticus answer? And how, in the story, does Atticus treat his own black servant, Calpurnia? Doesn't he even approve of Calpurnia's right to admonish his own child (Scout) over her insult to her young guest for pouring syrup over his dinner?

I think the fact that Scout asks the question is an opportunity for her -- and for every reader of the book -- to learn something important and profound about how we treat (versus we perhaps ought to treat) others.

Do you approve of banning any books? If so, which ones would you ban?
Book “bannings” usually have the opposite of the intended effort. Giving books free advertisement.
Granted I think the required reading material should be monitored to ensure the reading level is not too hard for certain grades.
But controversial books are a great way to open discussion among students and can have a lot of “teachable moments” by default.
Funnily enough US/UK book bannings often amused my own English teachers and they would give us said banned books.
Harry Potter for one, my grade 5 English teacher played the audio book for us in class, then we went as a class to watch the film in cinemas lol
My grade 8 teacher took us to our library, picked out a stack of frequently challenged books and told us, “see if you can find out why them yanks wanted these books banned.”
Ahh memories lol
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
There's a difference between banning a book and simply not stocking it. I don't expect a library to stock Playboys, even if they happen to have a few valuable pieces of information. If someone comes to a library and says, "I've got a lifetime subscription to Playboy Magazine and want to give you all my older copies", I might expect a library to refuse such request. is that the same as banning it? I don't know.

What I do know is there is a time and a place for everything and libraries are starting to become antiquated anyways. Unless there is something about the book that by itself is an illegal activity (pictures of real animal cruelty or pedophilia), I really don't think it can or should be illegal to publish on websites such as Amazon or Barnes and Nobles locations. Or to put it on the Internet. But again, there's a time and a place for everything. Remember when we were kids and went to White House.com and found smut on it, and had to be redirected to White House.gov like the teachers suggested in computer class? There's a time and place for everything.

That is not to say that everything that is necessary illegal cannot be admitted later. I remember Wikipedia featuring an article called Me and the Spitter, a real-life account of the illegal activity of Gaylord Perry spitting on his base balls to give him an upper hand in baseball. Is that wrong? Of course it is, and people shouldn't get the wrong idea and do the same thing. But it's not like him showing pictures of him spitting on the ball or describing how to do it is illegal by itself. It's illegal in MLB games, that's it. And I would probably expect a library to carry it if I requested a book like that. But if the media by itself is self-incrimination, then it cannot and should not be stocked in libraries.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
A recent report from PEN America, a book ban was enacted in U.S. school districts every 3 1/2 hours between July 2021 and July 2022. Nearly 140 school districts in 32 states issued more than 2,500 book bans during the 2021-2022 school year.

Wow!

But let's take a look at one book, "To Kill a Mockingbird" by Harper Lee. Since the 1960s, the book has faced challenges from inclusion in classrooms and libraries because of its language and subject matter. In 2019, the American Library Association listed it as No. 15 in its top 100 most banned and challenged books of the last decade.

Now, one of the obvious reasons is the book's use of the "N-word." It is, in fact, written on the pages of the book 44 times. Even Scout (the young daughter of Atticus Finch) asks her father, "do you defend n*****s?"

But how does Atticus answer? And how, in the story, does Atticus treat his own black servant, Calpurnia? Doesn't he even approve of Calpurnia's right to admonish his own child (Scout) over her insult to her young guest for pouring syrup over his dinner?

I think the fact that Scout asks the question is an opportunity for her -- and for every reader of the book -- to learn something important and profound about how we treat (versus we perhaps ought to treat) others.

Do you approve of banning any books? If so, which ones would you ban?

"Book ban" seems to imply that an entire society or country has banned anyone possessing or reading a book. Which isn't what's happening from what you're describing. Schools for children are choosing which books they make available in their libraries.

I think it's an open question with shades of grey to ask which books a school should make available to its students. Books that are excessively sexual or contain other graphic content or extremist political or religious messages I think it's reasonable for schools to not make available in their libraries.

For societies at large, rules should be as permissive as possible for adults IMO.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Books that are excessively sexual or contain other graphic content or extremist political or religious messages I think it's reasonable for schools to not make available in their libraries.

But is that what is actually happening? Or are books being banned "just because" someone disagrees with it?
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
"Book ban" seems to imply that an entire society or country has banned anyone possessing or reading a book. Which isn't what's happening from what you're describing. Schools for children are choosing which books they make available in their libraries.

So I went to a public school, and we read all these books that ask hard questions, and deal with hard topics, from early on. They were from the standard list that public schools get, and I assume still use.

I think reading a book is, in fact, a behavior that will require careful supervision, because any book worth reading will make you think hard, about something. If it didn't do that, not only would it be boring, but it would be useless.

A book should give you something to grapple with existentially, maybe making you question all your foundational premises, and maybe at times make your hair stand on end, just because you can see within it, the sheer power of mere ideas. And that requires supervision, but it also probably requires the youth to engage, because that's apparently when humans are most physiologically geared to learn in life.

I guess one problem I had, is that I had to wait till I was an adult to read anything really critical of Christianity. That's probably one thing that the public school won't touch for a while. But if I had read something in 9th grade talking about how Christianity might be Roman political propaganda, that probably would cause an uproar in my greater american culture.

How about a book about the nuclear bombs being tested in the Marshall islands? Or on the aftermath in Japan? They didn't teach us anything about MAD in the public schools, and the philosophy that keeps the world 'stable' with such a possibility. I am therefore forced to think about, and read about, that as an adult. Or, not think about it

Again, I think the schools should have books that question everything, in a powerful way. The books we read often weren't too long, or technical. There are some books that 'question everything,' but it is not really in a powerful enough way. For example, right now I find myself reading Hume. Well Hume will question everything, but it's not in a powerful way really. It's like reading an engineering textbook. It is important, but I think the adult mind is more fit to contemplate Hume
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
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Sand Dancer

Currently catless
But we are challenged with these controversial themes in Shakespeare, too. Anti-semitism in "The Merchant of Venice" or racial prejudice in "Othello" and "Titus Andronicus." I have no difficulty at all talking about these themes with quite young people -- especially here in Toronto which is so very multicultural.

And I find that kids easily cope with sexual matters, too. My best friend has two kids, 6 and 9. The older boy, when he was 7, directly asked my lover and I "can two boys be married?" We, and his parents, simply answered "yes," and moved on. He is turning out to be an absolutely great kid -- not sexualized at all yet, but completely unconcerned about people who are different. And he's unconcerned because the people around him, the people he trusts, are likewise unconcerned.

I think these bans will not result in what these folks think they will. Kids see reality in society whether or not they read about it. Learning occurs more readily by watching than by reading.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
But we are challenged with these controversial themes in Shakespeare, too. Anti-semitism in "The Merchant of Venice" or racial prejudice in "Othello" and "Titus Andronicus." I have no difficulty at all talking about these themes with quite young people -- especially here in Toronto which is so very multicultural.

And I find that kids easily cope with sexual matters, too. My best friend has two kids, 6 and 9. The older boy, when he was 7, directly asked my lover and I "can two boys be married?" We, and his parents, simply answered "yes," and moved on. He is turning out to be an absolutely great kid -- not sexualized at all yet, but completely unconcerned about people who are different. And he's unconcerned because the people around him, the people he trusts, are likewise unconcerned.
I find all those classics as within the academic acceptability. I can't name any books that I would find rpoblematic, but the subjects would be any book that has racist intent. If a book spelled out how and why minorities are inferior to whites that might not be worth reading. It would not be something i would suggest to anyone, let alone children. The topic of racism is valuable to discuss with kids, but not something blatantly promoting racism.
 
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Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
The following is from a CNN Race Deconstructed Analysis sent to me.

The movement against LGBTQ books is a relaunch of an old story

The book banning boom continues.

Already, the number of attempts this year to censor books in K-12 schools, universities and public libraries is on track to eclipse 2021’s record count, the American Library Association said on Friday. The ALA cataloged 681 attempts between January 1 and August 31; the 2021 tally was 729.

Further, PEN America, a literary and free expression organization, identified in a report released on Monday at least 50 groups at the national, state or local level that have advocated for book bans in recent months.

Many of these efforts seek to pull books with LGBTQ characters or themes—think Maia Kobabe’s “Gender Queer” or George M. Johnson’s “All Boys Aren’t Blue”—and are part of a broader, conservative-led movement to chisel away at the rights and status of LGBTQ Americans.

(Notably, the aforementioned groups also target titles that grapple with race and racism, including Toni Morrison’s debut novel, “The Bluest Eye.”)

A CNN analysis this year of data gathered by the American Civil Liberties Union found that, through July 1, lawmakers across dozens of mostly Republican-controlled states had introduced at least 162 anti-LGBTQ bills—a record—that would together limit classroom instruction about LGBTQ-related topics and bar transgender athletes’ participation in school sports, among other things.

To further parse the campaign against books that tell LGBTQ stories, I spoke with Anthony Michael Kreis, a law professor at Georgia State University whose interests include civil rights and anti-discrimination. During our conversation, which has been lightly edited for length and clarity, we talked about how today’s book banning efforts fit into a long US history of marginalizing certain groups and can disadvantage young people in the long run.

What do you make of the ongoing attempts to restrict books with LGBTQ protagonists or themes?

I think that we’re seeing a relaunch of an old story, which is that sexual minorities are “groomers” and predatory and that sexual orientation and gender identity are inherently sexual.

This story is being repackaged, but it’s also being weaponized in a way I think is a bit different now.

In the 1990s, for instance, these narratives and themes were used largely to scare people into rejecting LGBTQ rights and in particular nondiscrimination laws. One thing that’s different now is that, with social media being so prevalent and with the various ways we can interact with one another, we’re not necessarily seeing a broad allegation against the entire LGBTQ community. It’s an allegation targeted directly at individuals—a great degree of hatefulness is being projected at individuals in a way I don’t think we’ve really seen before.

So, you could be a teacher in a small town in Virginia or in a big city such as Chicago or Atlanta and suddenly you might have an account with a million followers targeting you and saying that you’re something you’re objectively not.

Could you give me more examples of past instances of this kind of anti-LGBTQ animus? I’d argue that there are sonorous echoes between the 1970s and today, for instance.

In the 1970s in particular, there was a major movement from social conservatives to keep gay and lesbian teachers out of classrooms. There was a major statewide initiative in California. There was, of course, Anita Bryant in Florida.

The animus that was driving those campaigns was, We need to keep gays and lesbians out of classrooms precisely because they’re an inherent danger to our children. They’re predatory. They’re recruiting.

In many respects, what’s happening now isn’t a new invention.

In important ways, we can detect backlash dynamics, right? People are mobilizing against hard-won LGBTQ equality.

There’s been a huge movement that’s embraced LGBTQ rights in recent years. The US Supreme Court gave us same-sex marriage in 2015, with Obergefell. There was national pushback against anti-transgender legislation in North Carolina in 2016. There are cultural dimensions, too. “RuPaul’s Drag Race” has become mainstream—grown in popularity beyond LGBTQ communities.

When minority groups and people who challenge the status quo gain a foothold, there will often be calls to oppose that progress. I think that we’re seeing those dynamics now.

What concerns do you have about how book bans might affect young people?

Well, tolerance is something we usually learn in our early school years. We reflect on who we are by engaging with the world, and we learn from others. So, suppressing a particular viewpoint or suppressing a particular group’s identity inhibits that natural educational process.

Often throughout US history, schools have been very contentious spaces. People fought desegregation in public schools because they feared that children in integrated schools would learn that there are more similarities than differences across people and then there would be friendships and marriages that would destabilize the social order.

I think that we’re seeing another iteration of that now. There’s a fear that if kids grow up seeing that sexuality or gender expression exists on a spectrum and that there’s nothing wrong with that, we’ll have a society that just accepts that. So, schools become the first line of defense because of how informative those early years are not only for how children think but also for how society evolves.
 
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