Secret Chief
Veteran Member
Just curious.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is Christmas pagan?
- Thread starter Secret Chief
- Start date
Christ = Messiah = for example king of Jews, Jesus.
Mass = Assembly, meeting, liturgical service
Nothing pagan in that.
Mass = Assembly, meeting, liturgical service
Nothing pagan in that.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
The religion it was based on was but I guess the holiday itself is not.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
There are elements of Paganism and Christianity in it.
TiggerII
Active Member
“DECEMBER 25 - Neither scripture nor secular history records the date of Jesus’ birth; even the season of the year is not stipulated.# Some evidence points to spring, but it is not conclusive. The only thing reasonably certain about the coming of the Christ Child is that his birth did not take place in winter. .... In A. D. 350 Pope Julius I formally designated December 25 as Christmas. He chose that date because it coincided with important pagan festivals. These, in turn, were linked with the winter solstice [the shortest day of the year].” - How it Started, p. 54.
“It was noted later that this date [Dec. 25] would fall within the rainy season in Palestine, so that the shepherds would hardly have been in the fields as they were when Jesus was born.” - p. 1425, The World Book Encyclopedia, 1958.
Isaac Asimov in an article for Saturday Review tells us that the ancient pagan Romans celebrated
“a week-long Saturnalia [honoring the Roman god Saturn] from Dec. 17 to 24. It was a time of unrelieved merriment and joy.... gifts were given all around.” Asimov continues, “the worship of Mithra, a sun-god of Persia, was becoming popular, especially among the soldiers. The Mithraists celebrated the birth of Mithra at the winter solstice, a natural time, and fixed on the day December 25 so that the popular Roman Saturnalia could build up to the Mithraist ‘Day of the Sun’ as a climax.
“At that time, Christianity was locked in a great duel with the Mithraists for the hearts and minds of the people of the Roman Empire. .... Sometime after 300, Christianity managed the final coup of absorbing the Saturnalia, and with it scored its final victory over Mithraism. December 25 was established as the day of the birth of Jesus and the great festival was made Christian. There is absolutely no Biblical authority for Dec. 25 as having been the day of the Nativity.” (Cf. “Sol Invictus”, p. 725, An Encyclopedia of Religion, 1945 ed.)
“December 25 was already a major festival in the pagan Roman world, the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, or ‘Birthday of the Unconquered Sun,’ a feast honoring the renewal of the sun at the winter solstice. Pagan celebrations on December 25 had included feasting, dancing, lighting bonfires, decorating homes with greens, and giving gifts. So when this became a Christian [?] festival, the customs continued, but with a Christian [?] meaning imparted to them. Throughout the [Catholic] Middle Ages, Christmas was a richly varied religious holiday. However, during the Commonwealth, the English Puritans, repelled by both the pagan practices and the religious ceremonies, forbade any religious or secular celebration of Christmas. The English celebration returned with the return of the Stuarts [“near-Catholic” Church of England monarchs], but Christmas observances were still outlawed in Puritan New England for many years; and not until the 19th century did Christmas become a legal holiday in America.” - p. 414, Vol. 4, Encyclopedia International, Grolier, Inc., 1966.
The Saturnalia, a pagan Roman festival honoring the Roman god Saturn, has supplied many of the elements found in Christmas.
“Most of the Christmas customs now prevailing in Europe [and America] ... are not genuine Christian customs, but heathen customs which have been absorbed or tolerated by the Church... The Saturnalia in Rome provided the model for most of the merry customs of the Christmas time.... Christmas inherited the general merriment in a more restrained form (excessive only in eating and drinking) [but see 1 Pet. 4:3, 4]: games, giving of gifts (especially to children), abundance of sweet meats and, as more ceremonious elements, burning of candles...” - Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Hastings, Vol. III, pp. 608, 609.
“The early Church in Rome had a particularly hard battle against two other great pagan festivals, the week-long Saturnalia, which began Dec. 17, and the Kalends, which greeted the New Year. The first festival was a time of licensed misrule, often presided over by a lord of merriment, not so much Santa as fat Saturn himself, the orgiast of eating, drinking and other kinds of naughtiness. It was during Kalends, when the year changed, however, that gifts were ritually exchanged, often tied to the boughs of greenery that decorated houses during the festivities.
“The attitude of the early church toward all this indecent jollity was predictably frosty. Its fathers, notably the fulminating St. John Chrysostom, urged no compromise with heathen abominations.” - Simon Schama, professor of history at Harvard University, in a feature article of the 24 Dec. 1991 issue of The New York Times.
“CHRISTMAS TREES - Many countries claim the distinction of having launched the custom of erecting Christmas trees, but it may have begun independently in several parts of Europe. Ceremonial worship of trees in ancient pagan rites almost certainly led to the decoration of trees at the time of the winter solstice. German emigrants [coming to the U.S.] brought with them the custom of setting up trees in their houses at Christmas.” - How It Started, pp. 52, 53.
“It is believed that the custom is a survival of the tree worship of ancient German tribes.” -- “Tree worship was common in Scandinavian countries.... When the pagans of Northern Europe became Christians [?], they made their sacred evergreen trees part of the Christian festival, and decorated the trees with gilded nuts, candles (a carry-over from sun worship), and apples to stand for the stars, moon, and sun.” - pp. 1429, 1425, The World Book Encyclopedia, 1958 ed.
“MISTLETOE - Why mistletoe [for Christmas decoration] instead of some other plant? Because this parasite which draws its nurture from oaks and other trees was regarded by the Druids of ancient Britain as endowed with supernatural power. .... Christians tried for centuries to discourage any use of mistletoe at any season of the year. The deeply ingrained practices rooted in [pagan] festivals around the time of the modern Christmas proved too stubborn to be eliminated, however.” - How It Started, pp. 53, 54.
“Mistletoe is the famous Golden Bough, honored in Norse legend and worshiped by the Druids.” - p. 337, Celebrations - The Complete Book of American Holidays, Robert J. Myers, Doubleday & Co., 1972.
YULE -
“In most of Europe [Christmas] is known as ‘Christ's Birthday.’ Scandinavian countries still use the pagan name ‘Yule Day.’ .... The Druids blessed [the Yule log] with great ceremony at the winter feast. (See Druid.)” - pp. 1425, 1426, The World Book Encyclopedia, 1958 ed.
“Yule (yool) n. Christmas. ¦< OE geol, originally a twelve-day heathen feast” - The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 1973, Dell.
“The burning of a huge log in the fireplace on Christmas day is a tradition followed by many European Christians that was borrowed from the Norsemen who burned a huge oak log called the Juul (pronounced ‘Yool’ or ‘Yule’) in honor of Thor, the God of thunder. After Christianity became the accepted faith of many Norsemen, they retained this custom as a part of their Christmas celebration. Later, the Scandinavians adopted the practice and even referred to the season as the ‘Yule season’ or ‘Yuletide’.” England and other European countries later adopted the tradition. - The Christian Book of Why, Dr. John C. McCollister (pastor and university professor, graduate of Trinity Lutheran Seminary), p. 215, Jonathan David Publishers, Inc., 1983.
“What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? .... ‘Therefore come out from them and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you ...' says the Lord Almighty.” - 2 Cor. 6:16, 17, NIVSB. [NIVSB f.n.: “agreement...between the temple of God and idols. There can be no reversion to or compromise with the idolatry they have forsaken for the gospel (cf. 1 Th. 1:9).”]
“It was noted later that this date [Dec. 25] would fall within the rainy season in Palestine, so that the shepherds would hardly have been in the fields as they were when Jesus was born.” - p. 1425, The World Book Encyclopedia, 1958.
Isaac Asimov in an article for Saturday Review tells us that the ancient pagan Romans celebrated
“a week-long Saturnalia [honoring the Roman god Saturn] from Dec. 17 to 24. It was a time of unrelieved merriment and joy.... gifts were given all around.” Asimov continues, “the worship of Mithra, a sun-god of Persia, was becoming popular, especially among the soldiers. The Mithraists celebrated the birth of Mithra at the winter solstice, a natural time, and fixed on the day December 25 so that the popular Roman Saturnalia could build up to the Mithraist ‘Day of the Sun’ as a climax.
“At that time, Christianity was locked in a great duel with the Mithraists for the hearts and minds of the people of the Roman Empire. .... Sometime after 300, Christianity managed the final coup of absorbing the Saturnalia, and with it scored its final victory over Mithraism. December 25 was established as the day of the birth of Jesus and the great festival was made Christian. There is absolutely no Biblical authority for Dec. 25 as having been the day of the Nativity.” (Cf. “Sol Invictus”, p. 725, An Encyclopedia of Religion, 1945 ed.)
“December 25 was already a major festival in the pagan Roman world, the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, or ‘Birthday of the Unconquered Sun,’ a feast honoring the renewal of the sun at the winter solstice. Pagan celebrations on December 25 had included feasting, dancing, lighting bonfires, decorating homes with greens, and giving gifts. So when this became a Christian [?] festival, the customs continued, but with a Christian [?] meaning imparted to them. Throughout the [Catholic] Middle Ages, Christmas was a richly varied religious holiday. However, during the Commonwealth, the English Puritans, repelled by both the pagan practices and the religious ceremonies, forbade any religious or secular celebration of Christmas. The English celebration returned with the return of the Stuarts [“near-Catholic” Church of England monarchs], but Christmas observances were still outlawed in Puritan New England for many years; and not until the 19th century did Christmas become a legal holiday in America.” - p. 414, Vol. 4, Encyclopedia International, Grolier, Inc., 1966.
The Saturnalia, a pagan Roman festival honoring the Roman god Saturn, has supplied many of the elements found in Christmas.
“Most of the Christmas customs now prevailing in Europe [and America] ... are not genuine Christian customs, but heathen customs which have been absorbed or tolerated by the Church... The Saturnalia in Rome provided the model for most of the merry customs of the Christmas time.... Christmas inherited the general merriment in a more restrained form (excessive only in eating and drinking) [but see 1 Pet. 4:3, 4]: games, giving of gifts (especially to children), abundance of sweet meats and, as more ceremonious elements, burning of candles...” - Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Hastings, Vol. III, pp. 608, 609.
“The early Church in Rome had a particularly hard battle against two other great pagan festivals, the week-long Saturnalia, which began Dec. 17, and the Kalends, which greeted the New Year. The first festival was a time of licensed misrule, often presided over by a lord of merriment, not so much Santa as fat Saturn himself, the orgiast of eating, drinking and other kinds of naughtiness. It was during Kalends, when the year changed, however, that gifts were ritually exchanged, often tied to the boughs of greenery that decorated houses during the festivities.
“The attitude of the early church toward all this indecent jollity was predictably frosty. Its fathers, notably the fulminating St. John Chrysostom, urged no compromise with heathen abominations.” - Simon Schama, professor of history at Harvard University, in a feature article of the 24 Dec. 1991 issue of The New York Times.
“CHRISTMAS TREES - Many countries claim the distinction of having launched the custom of erecting Christmas trees, but it may have begun independently in several parts of Europe. Ceremonial worship of trees in ancient pagan rites almost certainly led to the decoration of trees at the time of the winter solstice. German emigrants [coming to the U.S.] brought with them the custom of setting up trees in their houses at Christmas.” - How It Started, pp. 52, 53.
“It is believed that the custom is a survival of the tree worship of ancient German tribes.” -- “Tree worship was common in Scandinavian countries.... When the pagans of Northern Europe became Christians [?], they made their sacred evergreen trees part of the Christian festival, and decorated the trees with gilded nuts, candles (a carry-over from sun worship), and apples to stand for the stars, moon, and sun.” - pp. 1429, 1425, The World Book Encyclopedia, 1958 ed.
“MISTLETOE - Why mistletoe [for Christmas decoration] instead of some other plant? Because this parasite which draws its nurture from oaks and other trees was regarded by the Druids of ancient Britain as endowed with supernatural power. .... Christians tried for centuries to discourage any use of mistletoe at any season of the year. The deeply ingrained practices rooted in [pagan] festivals around the time of the modern Christmas proved too stubborn to be eliminated, however.” - How It Started, pp. 53, 54.
“Mistletoe is the famous Golden Bough, honored in Norse legend and worshiped by the Druids.” - p. 337, Celebrations - The Complete Book of American Holidays, Robert J. Myers, Doubleday & Co., 1972.
YULE -
“In most of Europe [Christmas] is known as ‘Christ's Birthday.’ Scandinavian countries still use the pagan name ‘Yule Day.’ .... The Druids blessed [the Yule log] with great ceremony at the winter feast. (See Druid.)” - pp. 1425, 1426, The World Book Encyclopedia, 1958 ed.
“Yule (yool) n. Christmas. ¦< OE geol, originally a twelve-day heathen feast” - The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 1973, Dell.
“The burning of a huge log in the fireplace on Christmas day is a tradition followed by many European Christians that was borrowed from the Norsemen who burned a huge oak log called the Juul (pronounced ‘Yool’ or ‘Yule’) in honor of Thor, the God of thunder. After Christianity became the accepted faith of many Norsemen, they retained this custom as a part of their Christmas celebration. Later, the Scandinavians adopted the practice and even referred to the season as the ‘Yule season’ or ‘Yuletide’.” England and other European countries later adopted the tradition. - The Christian Book of Why, Dr. John C. McCollister (pastor and university professor, graduate of Trinity Lutheran Seminary), p. 215, Jonathan David Publishers, Inc., 1983.
“What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? .... ‘Therefore come out from them and be separate,’ says the Lord. ‘Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you ...' says the Lord Almighty.” - 2 Cor. 6:16, 17, NIVSB. [NIVSB f.n.: “agreement...between the temple of God and idols. There can be no reversion to or compromise with the idolatry they have forsaken for the gospel (cf. 1 Th. 1:9).”]
Last edited by a moderator:
Augustus
…
A handy summary of all the stuff that is commonly rehashed but isn’t actually true.
Scholarship has moved on in the past 70 years and the 19th and early 20th c misconceptions are now recognised as such.
This question came early this year
Augustus
…
On the idea that many pagan traditions survived through the ages, this is a pretty interesting article:
The idea that something called “paganism” existed in medieval society as a mode of conscious resistance to Christianity has proved seductive, despite having no factual basis whatsoever. How did the myth of the pagan Middle Ages arise, and why does it exert such a hold on our imaginations?
The myth dates back centuries, with beginnings in the Middle Ages themselves, when the charge of paganism proved useful in theological controversies. The idea that sects of sorcerers worshiped the devil and offered sacrifices to him emerged in the writings of fourteenth-century demonologists. This legend allowed individuals accused of sorcery and witchcraft to be tried for apostasy, since they were said to have switched from worship of God to worship of the devil. In the sixteenth century, Protestant critics of the Catholic Church made heavy use of the accusation that Catholicism was a form of paganism, since it permitted practices such as veneration of saints and relics. For post-Reformation Protestants, the Middle Ages were pagan because they were Catholic.
In the nineteenth century, anti-Catholicism combined with a Romantic fantasy of pagan sorcery as a rebellion against the institutional power of the Church. The French historian Jules Michelet articulated the Romantic view in his history of witchcraft, La Sorcière (1862). Nineteenth-century folklorists classified many folk customs as relics of a pre-Christian past, creating the impression that Europe’s peasants had remained essentially pagan beneath a cultural veneer of Christianity throughout the medieval period and beyond.
Hence the tendency to label “pagan” anything in medieval European art that does not conform to stereotypes of Christian art.
www.firstthings.com
The idea that something called “paganism” existed in medieval society as a mode of conscious resistance to Christianity has proved seductive, despite having no factual basis whatsoever. How did the myth of the pagan Middle Ages arise, and why does it exert such a hold on our imaginations?
The myth dates back centuries, with beginnings in the Middle Ages themselves, when the charge of paganism proved useful in theological controversies. The idea that sects of sorcerers worshiped the devil and offered sacrifices to him emerged in the writings of fourteenth-century demonologists. This legend allowed individuals accused of sorcery and witchcraft to be tried for apostasy, since they were said to have switched from worship of God to worship of the devil. In the sixteenth century, Protestant critics of the Catholic Church made heavy use of the accusation that Catholicism was a form of paganism, since it permitted practices such as veneration of saints and relics. For post-Reformation Protestants, the Middle Ages were pagan because they were Catholic.
In the nineteenth century, anti-Catholicism combined with a Romantic fantasy of pagan sorcery as a rebellion against the institutional power of the Church. The French historian Jules Michelet articulated the Romantic view in his history of witchcraft, La Sorcière (1862). Nineteenth-century folklorists classified many folk customs as relics of a pre-Christian past, creating the impression that Europe’s peasants had remained essentially pagan beneath a cultural veneer of Christianity throughout the medieval period and beyond.
Hence the tendency to label “pagan” anything in medieval European art that does not conform to stereotypes of Christian art.
The Myth of Medieval Paganism | Francis Young
They don’t look very Christian—those strange faces made of leaves, and those women . . . .
www.firstthings.com
