Is DNA a sign of Intelligent design?

[Watchmen]

And there it is. The superiority complex of some theists is astounding.

 

[F1fan]

Again, unlike an atheist who simply guesses that God does not exist,

Nah, we are still waiting for any theist to demonstrate any of the many gods exist. Nothing so far.

I am 100% sure He does exist. He occupies a timeless, spaceless and formless realm.

And how do you as a mere mortal know this? Do you have special powers?

Now I know that some of you may be opposed to this statement, but that is just you clamoring out of the depths of your confusion.

Just waiting for you to back up your extraordinary claim.

It's a mutually exclusive statement. I.e. since I am 100% sure He does exist, then this means that every single person who is an atheist is clueless as to the nature of God's existence.

What a self-serving comment. And why would any rational thinker agree with your claim when you offer no evidence?

As I sit here in my knowledge of God's existence, and the transcendent nature of this deistic Being, any atheist who opposes this truth is simply living in pretentious squalor. I am one of the few people in the world who can claim to know with 100% certainty, along with Langan.

My what an excellent example of irony.

 

[Kenny]

The science community has established that DNA is a complex polymer that is present in all life forms. Its origins are somewhat mysterious in the way that nature operates according to laws that create the myriad life forms that inhabit the earth. Does this suggest fine-tuning or even intelligent design? The likelihood that this has occurred by random chance is extremely slim. The observer-participatory universe required observers to help create reality through observation. A closed loop. The observers fill their role as powerful creators of reality. Spawned from DNA and free to make choices, they become creators of possibility. Despite the objections raised by non-believers, random chance is ruled out because their are deeper levels of reality.

I am entertaining this idea and would like your thoughts.

I agree:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DNA digital data storage is the process of encoding and decoding binary data to and from synthesized strands of DNA.[1][2]
While DNA as a storage medium has enormous potential because of its high storage density, its practical use is currently severely limited because of its high cost and very slow read and write times.[3]

There are not enough billions of years to create this capacity with a God. IMV and IMU

 

[leroy]

am one of the few people in the world who can claim to know with 100% certainty, along with Langan.

Why / how are you 100 sure that God exists?

 

[leroy]

Nah, we are still waiting for any theist to demonstrate any of the many gods exist. Nothing so far.

And how do you as a mere mortal know this? Do you have special powers?

Just waiting for you to back up your extraordinary claim.

What a self-serving comment. And why would any rational thinker agree with your claim when you offer no evidence?

My what an excellent example of irony.

Is there any observation that would make you conclude that DNA was designed?

 

[wellwisher]

The science community has established that DNA is a complex polymer that is present in all life forms. Its origins are somewhat mysterious in the way that nature operates according to laws that create the myriad life forms that inhabit the earth. Does this suggest fine-tuning or even intelligent design? The likelihood that this has occurred by random chance is extremely slim. The observer-participatory universe required observers to help create reality through observation. A closed loop. The observers fill their role as powerful creators of reality. Spawned from DNA and free to make choices, they become creators of possibility. Despite the objections raised by non-believers, random chance is ruled out because their are deeper levels of reality.

I am entertaining this idea and would like your thoughts.

DNA only works in water. If you place DNA in other solvents, it no longer functions properly. This tells me that DNA is tuned to water, with water and DNA, like a mated pair. DNA evolved in water, with water being the source of natural chemical selection at the nanoscale.

Water is a terminal product of combustion; fire. Water is chemically stable and at very low energy for a molecule. Water does not change any further, since these is no more energy to give. It is the organics of life, such as DNA and protein that do the changing. This is still the rule in terms of life on earth. Water is like a timeless bookend, that was there, exactly the same, today, as on day one. The organics will come and go, and continue to change, which still occurs even today. The goal appears to be, select the DNA and organics in the image of water; steady state co-existence.

Water is the most anomalous substance in nature with over 70 anomalies compared to the trends in other materials. Water has a lot of angles from which to approach selection at the nanoscale. The most important is the water and oil effect. If we blend water and oil we can make an emulsion. But since this creates surface tension in the water, the water and oil will reverse this disorder, back to order. We end up with two ordered layers. Water makes cells bead up and imposes order to minimize the surface tension of the water.

Life is speculated to be possible in other solvents. If this was to occur, these solvents would not evolve DNA. Rather each solvent would form; naturally select, their own version of genetic material, that is tuned to each solvent. The problem with all the other solvents, is they are not as good a bookend as water. Organic solvents; ammonia, alcohol, etc., have energy or fuel value and therefore can and will change. Most would eventually be metabolized or burnt to form water and CO2 in the presence of oxygen; life spontaneously bursting into flames. The result would be a moving target solvent; sliding bookend, that cannot lead the genetic materials to a focus, as does water and DNA. Water based life has all the selective advantages and would get there first and metabolize the rest.

Water is the second most abundant molecule in the universe. Water is also the most common solid material in the universe; ice. The ice of the universe can attract via gravity easier than gases like hydrogen. This allows for pockets of water. Water based life can always find water and can one day travel the universe from water hole to water hole. It was well planned even for the future.

The problem is the life sciences, do not see this ordering within the DNA as connected to the water. They assume random occurrences in a black box. That is not a very intelligent design. For example, most textbooks still show DNA (and RNA) base pairs by themself without water; below left. This dehydrated state of DNA is not bioactive. DNA needs chemically bound water, with the base pairs containing plenty of sites for the water; below right. This hydrated water forms a double helix inside the DNA double helix. Guanine and Cytosine have three hydrogen bonding sites between these bases, and six sites for water. A-T has 2 hydrogen bonding sites between the bases and 5 for water. This is a much better design more geared to the needs of water.

Below are pictures of the three main conformations of the DNA double helix; B-DNA, A-DNA and Z-DNA. These three shapes of the double helix differ by the amount of hydration; bound water, with B-DNA, being the most common and contains the most hydration.

Lastly, below is a picture of the DNA double helix and the double helix of water. That is an intelligent design. If we assume that was the end game design, based on structure, potentials and anomalies defined by water, then water could patiently pick and choose, until the DNA gets filled in, since water does not change and can stay in a single focus. The goal is minimal potential in water; water and oil effect, that lowers the DNA's entropy; neatly packed, forcing the second law to become amplified on the DNA; complexity and change.

 

[F1fan]

Is there any observation that would make you conclude that DNA was designed?

There being no genetic defects. There being no genetic diseases. A designer being identified and observed.

Of course we know what your motive is, and that's to justify religious beliefs that lack evidence.. Why not just admit there's no evidence for design, or a God?

There are not enough billions of years to create this capacity with a God. IMV and IMU

So even your God can't help DNA develop capacity for more complex organisms to form?

Well if it's wasn't nature (which is plausible), but not your God, what is your next guess?

 

[leroy]

There being no genetic defects. There being no genetic diseases.

At worst that takes you to an imperfet designer.....but it doesn't take you to "no design "

A designer being identified and observed.

Many things are identified as being design even if the designer has not been obverved. Why are you making ab arbitrary exception wth DNA?




Just be realistic . What realistic experiment or obvesvation could be donde . And what resoults would make you conclude thet maybe DNA was designed .



For example if further experiments show that efective self replication is a simple mechanism (few amimoacidas are needed) I would drop design as the explanation for the origin of life.

Can you give a similar example where you would drop "nature did it" as the best explanation?

 

[F1fan]

At worst that takes you to an imperfet designer.....but it doesn't take you to "no design "

A "designer" implies an intentional actor. There's no evidence of this, perfect of imperfect. You are confusing order for design. What exists in the way of order in the universe is just have energy behaves according to the laws of physics. There is nothing we observe that can't come about through natural law.

You creationists need to find something that exists that is impossible as a natural phenomenon. Thus far your cult of religious extremists have no examples. All you guys do is play with bad math.

The math you guys never do is the probablity of some sort of god/creator/designer existing. You can't, there's no data.

Many things are identified as being design even if the designer has not been obverved.

Yeah, it's a guess that indicates religious bias.

Why are you making ab arbitrary exception wth DNA?

Because there's no indication of design, and DNA is a sequence of four protiens in a chain. These are all naturally occurring in nature, and there are explanations as to how these organic chemicals came about in nature.

The only reason a god/creator/designer is brought up is due to a long tradition of religious belief, not facts, not data, not observations.

Just be realistic . What realistic experiment or obvesvation could be donde . And what resoults would make you conclude thet maybe DNA was designed .

That's your job. I defer to experts in science and what they report. No gods, no creators, no designers.

For example if further experiments show that efective self replication is a simple mechanism (few amimoacidas are needed) I would drop design as the explanation for the origin of life.

I don't care about your beliefs. You have a reputation of religious bais, flawed thinking, inconsistent posts, unwarranted claims that you don't support, arrogance, etc.

If you think a desiner exists, prove it. It's not my job to help you bolster your religious beliefs, nor enable your religious bias.

Can you give a similar example where you would drop "nature did it" as the best explanation?

Evidence to the contrary, which you religious folks don't have. Until you offer evidence, your religious beliefs are irrelevant and classified as irrational.

 

[leroy]

A "designer" implies an intentional actor. There's no evidence of this, perfect of imperfect. You are confusing order for design. What exists in the way of order in the universe is just have energy behaves according to the laws of physics. There is nothing we observe that can't come about through natural law.

You creationists need to find something that exists that is impossible as a natural phenomenon. Thus far your cult of religious extremists have no examples. All you guys do is play with bad math.

The math you guys never do is the probablity of some sort of god/creator/designer existing. You can't, there's no data.

Yeah, it's a guess that indicates religious bias.

Because there's no indication of design, and DNA is a sequence of four protiens in a chain. These are all naturally occurring in nature, and there are explanations as to how these organic chemicals came about in nature.

The only reason a god/creator/designer is brought up is due to a long tradition of religious belief, not facts, not data, not observations.

That's your job. I defer to experts in science and what they report. No gods, no creators, no designers.

I don't care about your beliefs. You have a reputation of religious bais, flawed thinking, inconsistent posts, unwarranted claims that you don't support, arrogance, etc.

If you think a desiner exists, prove it. It's not my job to help you bolster your religious beliefs, nor enable your religious bias.

Evidence to the contrary, which you religious folks don't have. Until you offer evidence, your religious beliefs are irrelevant and classified as irrational.

Why are you evading my question?


Is there any realistic experiment or obvesvation that could be done in the future whose resoults would convince you that DNA was designed?

 

[F1fan]

Why are you evading my question?

Because it isn't genuine. You like to play games as if you have some insider info that you think you can spring on gullible vicims. You don't realize you are the gullible victim of creationists.

Is there any realistic experiment or obvesvation that could be done in the future whose resoults would convince you that DNA was designed?

Sure, find a designer. How do you set up an expriment that detects a designer?

And let's be honest, if a designer is discovered it will be cruel and a mass murderer. Why? Because it designed DNA with little defects that are in essence mine fields of death. You have a child and it develops cancer that can be treated, but not cured. That is the designer you think exists. It plays dice, it created the lottery of life and death. Why design it that way? You tell us.

 

[leroy]

Sure, find a designer. How do you set up an expriment that detects a designer?

Well that is the question I am asking


Ill give you an example. If we find biological systems that are irreducible complex. I would accept that as conclusive evidence for design

But this is me....... I am asking you what experiments or observations would convince YOU?

 

[Ostronomos]

A "designer" implies an intentional actor. There's no evidence of this, perfect of imperfect. You are confusing order for design. What exists in the way of order in the universe is just have energy behaves according to the laws of physics. There is nothing we observe that can't come about through natural law.

You creationists need to find something that exists that is impossible as a natural phenomenon. Thus far your cult of religious extremists have no examples. All you guys do is play with bad math.

The thing is that no amount of atheistic argument can ever sway me, because I am 100% certain that a God exists. And I am one of the few who can honestly claim this.

If you ask me to provide evidence, I cannot. However I have written logical proofs of this claim such as One X, Therefore One God etc. I apologize if you cannot grasp the proof, but that is your own shortcoming.

The math you guys never do is the probablity of some sort of god/creator/designer existing. You can't, there's no data.

Yeah, it's a guess that indicates religious bias.

The argument for necessary Being renders God as an absolute truth. Assuming truth exists as something absolute. Because good and evil are not an illusion, we may entertain the possibility that demonic forces and divine beings exist as no small feat.

Mind=Reality=Language since mind and reality intersect at language, as the content of both (see SCSPL on CTMU Wiki). It is only the inferior atheistic view that falls short of full comprehension. Anyone who unlocks their full potential will naturally prove the existence of God. Because they will be privy to the secrets of the universe.

Because there's no indication of design, and DNA is a sequence of four protiens in a chain. These are all naturally occurring in nature, and there are explanations as to how these organic chemicals came about in nature.

The only reason a god/creator/designer is brought up is due to a long tradition of religious belief, not facts, not data, not observations.

Those who have witnessed the actual supernatural world that exists in the higher dimension will tell you that a God is real and genuine. The science community is embracing an observer-participatory universe (one that exists as created by observation), this goes a long way to establishing the fact that our reality is actually a matrix or simulation or virtual reality overseen by a God (the omnipotent One).

 

[Ostronomos]

To add to the above, one of the evils of atheism is that it blinds one from the idea that good and evil are not an illusion but reality. Thus it opens the door to all manner of evil and immorality. It minimizes the deeper meaning and importance of a highest Being.

 

[F1fan]

Well that is the question I am asking

Why? Why not just follow the evidence?

Ill give you an example. If we find biological systems that are irreducible complex. I would accept that as conclusive evidence for design

But there isn’t.

But this is me....... I am asking you what experiments or observations would convince YOU?

Evidence. There is none of what you are looking for to justify your religious beliefs.

 

[Kenny]

So even your God can't help DNA develop capacity for more complex organisms to form?

Well if it's wasn't nature (which is plausible), but not your God, what is your next guess?

Or, perhaps, it is your thinking that shows that God knows much more than you?

 

[Watchmen]

Theists calling atheists evil. What a great thread this is.

 

[F1fan]

Or, perhaps, it is your thinking that shows that God knows much more than you

The God you imagine exists is no doubt vastly more ignorant than me. Why? Because if I was a God I wouldn’t let children be born with defects or diseases. For some reason your God is oblivious to the morals you think it created.

 

[Kenny]

The God you imagine exists is no doubt vastly more ignorant than me. Why? Because if I was a God I wouldn’t let children be born with defects or diseases. For some reason your God is oblivious to the morals you think it created.

We have covered this before.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The likelihood that this has occurred by random chance is extremely slim.

Is it?

How do you know?