Is every version of God a God-of-the-gaps?

[ruffen]

I've been thinking about this lately. The classical God-of-the-gaps concept is to use God as an explanation for gaps in our knowledge - things that science doesn't understand yet.

So, a thousand years ago, God was thought to be responsible for a lot of stuff:
- thunder and lightning
- earthquakes
- comets or other celestial events
- disease
- bad weather, drought, floods
etc.

All of these have since been explained by science. Now on to stuff that God is by many believed to be responsible for today:
- spontaneous remission of disease after prayer
- the Universe coming into existence
- creating mankind or at least "nudge" evolution now and then to produce us
- giving us "souls" - consciousness, moral/ethics, ability to think etc.
- listening to our prayers, and giving us the feeling that someone is watching/listening to us

In my opinion all these are either answered or answerable by science - medicine, physics, evolution, neuroscience, and psychology in the order of the points listed above.

Of course there is the question of what happens after death, but neuroscience has already shown that our souls are the direct result of our brains, and that our personality, our memories, our sensations, everything that make us what we are, is dependent of our physical bodies working. Life after death may be just as unreal as life before birth.

Any "miracle" performed by God, any divine intervention in the physical world (ie. God changing particles or energies in the Universe), may not be miraculous at all, but explainable by science now or in the future, like that tree that dripped with "the tears of Jesus" that turned out to be beetle poo.

I also think that any and every aspect of nature is within the domain of science to find out more about. Just because something is unexplained in 2014, does not mean it is inherently unexplainable.


So, is there anything God does, has done, or can do, that is truly divine (ie. inherently unexplainable by science today and forever), or are all suspected such interventions just of the God-of-the-gaps type - a simple explanation and an easy way out to explain stuff we do not yet understand?

And if God cannot affect the physical world, what reason is there to believe that it is real?

 

[Tumah]

I don't think the god-of-the-gaps (sounds like lord of the flies) is a good explanation for the Jewish G-d. Deut. 8:3 "Because not on bread alone does man live, but on every utterance of G-d, man lives." I see that verse as accepting that there is scientific explanation behind the digestive process of eating bread. But why does the bread continue to exist from one moment to the next? Why does the digestive system work? Basically, what keeps nature running its course? This verse is saying that those rules of nature that were put in place with the creation. "Psalms 119:89) Forever, G-d, Your Words stand in Heaven." Those words are the rules of nature that keeps nature naturing.

 

[Iti oj]

I don't think the god-of-the-gaps (sounds like lord of the flies) is a good explanation for the Jewish G-d. Deut. 8:3 "Because not on bread alone does man live, but on every utterance of G-d, man lives." I see that verse as accepting that there is scientific explanation behind the digestive process of eating bread. But why does the bread continue to exist from one moment to the next? Why does the digestive system work? Basically, what keeps nature running its course? This verse is saying that those rules of nature that were put in place with the creation. "Psalms 119:89) Forever, G-d, Your Words stand in Heaven." Those words are the rules of nature that keeps nature naturing.

Sounds like a god of the gaps to me.

 

[Thana]

I personally doubt that there will ever be a day where it is proven that God does not exist, And that everything in the universe will be explained.

There is a difference between theories and facts my friend, And one can hypothesize the why's, But that does not give it more or less value than belief in a God

 

[Iti oj]

I personally doubt that there will ever be a day where it is proven that God does not exist, And that everything in the universe will be explained.

There is a difference between theories and facts my friend, And one can hypothesize the why's, But that does not give it more or less value than belief in a God

Some good points,but not quite the question, however I do think you asked it. Since we will never know everything the god of the gaps will always exist.

I think any god form that is not required for existance will not be a god of the gaps.

 

[ruffen]

I personally doubt that there will ever be a day where it is proven that God does not exist, And that everything in the universe will be explained.

There is a difference between theories and facts my friend, And one can hypothesize the why's, But that does not give it more or less value than belief in a God

So what you're saying is that there will always be gaps in which God can hide, because not everything in the Universe will be explained?

 

[ruffen]

I think any god form that is not required for existance will not be a god of the gaps.

But a God that is not required for the existence of things (the Universe, reality, life, us etc), is that a God or just a mighty alien?

And a God that does not actually affect anything in the real world, is that a real God or an imagined one?

 

[BSM1]

I've been thinking about this lately. The classical God-of-the-gaps concept is to use God as an explanation for gaps in our knowledge - things that science doesn't understand yet.

So, a thousand years ago, God was thought to be responsible for a lot of stuff:
- thunder and lightning
- earthquakes
- comets or other celestial events
- disease
- bad weather, drought, floods
etc.

All of these have since been explained by science. Now on to stuff that God is by many believed to be responsible for today:
- spontaneous remission of disease after prayer
- the Universe coming into existence
- creating mankind or at least "nudge" evolution now and then to produce us
- giving us "souls" - consciousness, moral/ethics, ability to think etc.
- listening to our prayers, and giving us the feeling that someone is watching/listening to us

In my opinion all these are either answered or answerable by science - medicine, physics, evolution, neuroscience, and psychology in the order of the points listed above.

Of course there is the question of what happens after death, but neuroscience has already shown that our souls are the direct result of our brains, and that our personality, our memories, our sensations, everything that make us what we are, is dependent of our physical bodies working. Life after death may be just as unreal as life before birth.

Any "miracle" performed by God, any divine intervention in the physical world (ie. God changing particles or energies in the Universe), may not be miraculous at all, but explainable by science now or in the future, like that tree that dripped with "the tears of Jesus" that turned out to be beetle poo.

I also think that any and every aspect of nature is within the domain of science to find out more about. Just because something is unexplained in 2014, does not mean it is inherently unexplainable.


So, is there anything God does, has done, or can do, that is truly divine (ie. inherently unexplainable by science today and forever), or are all suspected such interventions just of the God-of-the-gaps type - a simple explanation and an easy way out to explain stuff we do not yet understand?

And if God cannot affect the physical world, what reason is there to believe that it is real?

Can't argue against your point, but if cornered I would contend that a Deity gave us a reason and a capacity for skepticism. Science, I believe, will always find the 'what' and the 'how' but the 'why' seems to be very elusive.

 

[ruffen]

Can't argue against your point, but if cornered I would contend that a Deity gave us a reason and a capacity for skepticism. Science, I believe, will always find the 'what' and the 'how' but the 'why' seems to be very elusive.

I'm not sure I understand you. Take for example a well understood phenomenon: earthquakes.

The "what" question: What happened? An earthquake of so-and-so magnitude etc.

The "how" question: How did it happen? The Filipino Plate grinds against the Eurasian Plate and this causes pressures to be released as earthquakes

The "why" question: Why did it happen? Because those two tectonic plates move against each other, and this happens because the Earth has a thin crust of solid material floating on a molten iron core.


All these questions are answerable by science. Unless you mean "why" as in "what is the intelligent thought behind the design of the earthquake", in which case the answer isn't there simply because the question is meaningless.


As for the deity giving us reason and capacity for skepticism, this is explainable through evolution of our species, where the individuals capable of reason and skepticism had greater chance of survival and passing on their genes than the ones who weren't quite as bright. The skeptical ones did not believe that the lion was gone just because the tribe's elder said so, while the less skeptical ones were eaten by the lion.

Again, sounds a lot like a God-of-the-gaps to claim our intelligence as having to be designed by God. Ie. "it's fantastic and quite mysterious, therefore God".

 

[Thana]

So what you're saying is that there will always be gaps in which God can hide, because not everything in the Universe will be explained?

No, I'm saying that just because things can be explained, that doesn't diminish faith or belief in a deity or the possibility of God's existence.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't think the god-of-the-gaps (sounds like lord of the flies) is a good explanation for the Jewish G-d. Deut. 8:3 "Because not on bread alone does man live, but on every utterance of G-d, man lives." I see that verse as accepting that there is scientific explanation behind the digestive process of eating bread. But why does the bread continue to exist from one moment to the next? Why does the digestive system work? Basically, what keeps nature running its course? This verse is saying that those rules of nature that were put in place with the creation. "Psalms 119:89) Forever, G-d, Your Words stand in Heaven." Those words are the rules of nature that keeps nature naturing.

Sounds like a god of the gaps to me.

Because you weren't listening.

The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible. - Einstein​

 

[LuisDantas]

But a God that is not required for the existence of things (the Universe, reality, life, us etc), is that a God or just a mighty alien?

And a God that does not actually affect anything in the real world, is that a real God or an imagined one?

That is the core matter in my opinion.

Is it even important, or proper, to think of God as an explanation for existence?

Or is God instead meant to be an inspiration and a focus first and foremost?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Of course there is the question of what happens after death, but neuroscience has already shown that our souls are the direct result of our brains, and that our personality, our memories, our sensations, everything that make us what we are, is dependent of our physical bodies working. Life after death may be just as unreal as life before birth

No, it hasn't. Neuroscience doesn't understand much about our brains, much less about consciousness or even what it is.

 

[Iti oj]

Because you weren't listening.

The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is comprehensible. - Einstein​

Perhaps you could explain it more please.

 

[Adept]

I don't think the god-of-the-gaps (sounds like lord of the flies) is a good explanation for the Jewish G-d. Deut. 8:3 "Because not on bread alone does man live, but on every utterance of G-d, man lives." I see that verse as accepting that there is scientific explanation behind the digestive process of eating bread. But why does the bread continue to exist from one moment to the next? Why does the digestive system work? Basically, what keeps nature running its course? This verse is saying that those rules of nature that were put in place with the creation. "Psalms 119:89) Forever, G-d, Your Words stand in Heaven." Those words are the rules of nature that keeps nature naturing.

Sounds like Ra putting Ma'at in place.

 

[BSM1]

I'm not sure I understand you. Take for example a well understood phenomenon: earthquakes.

The "what" question: What happened? An earthquake of so-and-so magnitude etc.

The "how" question: How did it happen? The Filipino Plate grinds against the Eurasian Plate and this causes pressures to be released as earthquakes

The "why" question: Why did it happen? Because those two tectonic plates move against each other, and this happens because the Earth has a thin crust of solid material floating on a molten iron core.


All these questions are answerable by science. Unless you mean "why" as in "what is the intelligent thought behind the design of the earthquake", in which case the answer isn't there simply because the question is meaningless.


As for the deity giving us reason and capacity for skepticism, this is explainable through evolution of our species, where the individuals capable of reason and skepticism had greater chance of survival and passing on their genes than the ones who weren't quite as bright. The skeptical ones did not believe that the lion was gone just because the tribe's elder said so, while the less skeptical ones were eaten by the lion.

Again, sounds a lot like a God-of-the-gaps to claim our intelligence as having to be designed by God. Ie. "it's fantastic and quite mysterious, therefore God".

Good example. Science can explain what an earthquake is and what caused it to happen. But no scientist can explain why an earth that quakes even exists in the first
place.

 

[Iti oj]

Good example. Science can explain what an earthquake is and what caused it to happen. But no scientist can explain why an earth that quakes even exists in the first
place.

Yes it can, of course how far back to you mean? The farther back you go the harder it is, but it is always still possible. Just because we don't know now does not mean we won't know. God of the gaps strike again.

 

[ruffen]

No, it hasn't. Neuroscience doesn't understand much about our brains, much less about consciousness or even what it is.

And yet we have chemicals to take away consciousness and restore it at will. It is not magic.

 

[BSM1]

Yes it can, of course how far back to you mean? The farther back you go the harder it is, but it is always still possible. Just because we don't know now does not mean we won't know. God of the gaps strike again.

They can explain the physical earth and even it's birth. But metaphysically they will never say why there was a birth to begin with (nor should they). Science will never tell us why we are here.

 

[ruffen]

Using the mystery (ie. gap in one's knowledge) of consciousness to indicate the presence or work of a deity is another classic God-of-the-gaps.