• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is faith a choice?

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Salam

Some people feel faith or lack of it is not a choice. I think it's not in a vacuum.

Do we want there to be a next world or do we want this life to be the only life?

An advantage in this being the only life, is that you don't worry for moral accountability for your actions.

An advantage in being a next world is that you do worry for moral accountability for your actions.

Did I just contradict myself? No. They are both advantages but for a different part of you respectively. For lower self or for higher self. For animal self or for spiritual reality part of you.

There is also other factors. Sometimes we want to sin, then don't want to be wrong, we want the act to be okay or even good, and as the only religion with proof condemns it, so we avoid to seek the proof for religion and instead create our own morals or choose a religion based on what we desire out of caprice.

There's more to it. To be convinced of philosophical proofs or spiritual truths, takes a bit of discipline. It takes silencing the mind from irrational thought and seeing the truth in a humble grounded way. Are we ready to be be humble?

Still, while faith is not on and off switch there are other factors. For example, we may love our family, our people, or a person we are attracted to and don't want it to be they are on falsehood or that they are evil and so we will deny reality as is, the true justice and balance and measurement of deeds, all so the people we love are not accounted in a negative way.

Reflection can be a headache. It can literally hurt the head. It's easier to just go with small talk, life goals, party, have fun, and not think about things involving justice. It's easier to not see the solution for world problems but ignore them. Easier to be apathetic then live a life striving for justice.

Still, more to it. Is that we choose to be truthful to ourselves or not. If we come across proofs and are dishonest about it to ourselves, then this a choice.

Lying to ourselves or being true to ourselves is a choice.

Being honest about what one knows or not, is a choice.

Running away from the higher road towards all "fun and games" is a choice.

Not regretting our evil actions and seeing it as good to deceive ourselves we are good is a choice too.

How important truth is for us is a choice.

All these factor in.

And if we know God exists, if we decide to want to be guided by his guidance or seek the world while just blindly following clergy class is a choice too.

If God revealed a book, how we read it, is a choice. Are we playful? Are we sincere? To we impose our opinion on it or seek to learn from it? Do we take seriously the plausibility of it or come towards it seeking faults without acknowledging our bias maybe the fault generator?

Do we see miss the forest for the trees when reading God's book?

This all factors in. Did we reflect over what would prove himself or his religion? This is a choice. To read the book with reflection or ignore it or not read at all except what some people quote here and there is all a choice.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
Salam

Some people feel faith or lack of it is not a choice. I think it's not in a vacuum.

Do we want there to be a next world or do we want this life to be the only life?

An advantage in this being the only life, is that you don't worry for moral accountability for your actions.

An advantage in being a next world is that you do worry for moral accountability for your actions.

Did I just contradict myself? No. They are both advantages but for a different part of you respectively. For lower self or for higher self. For animal self or for spiritual reality part of you.

There is also other factors. Sometimes we want to sin, then don't want to be wrong, we want the act to be okay or even good, and as the only religion with proof condemns it, so we avoid to seek the proof for religion and instead create our own morals or choose a religion based on what we desire out of caprice.

There's more to it. To be convinced of philosophical proofs or spiritual truths, takes a bit of discipline. It takes silencing the mind from irrational thought and seeing the truth in a humble grounded way. Are we ready to be be humble?

Still, while faith is not on and off switch there are other factors. For example, we may love our family, our people, or a person we are attracted to and don't want it to be they are on falsehood or that they are evil and so we will deny reality as is, the true justice and balance and measurement of deeds, all so the people we love are not accounted in a negative way.

Reflection can be a headache. It can literally hurt the head. It's easier to just go with small talk, life goals, party, have fun, and not think about things involving justice. It's easier to not see the solution for world problems but ignore them. Easier to be apathetic then live a life striving for justice.

Still, more to it. Is that we choose to be truthful to ourselves or not. If we come across proofs and are dishonest about it to ourselves, then this a choice.

Lying to ourselves or being true to ourselves is a choice.

Being honest about what one knows or not, is a choice.

Running away from the higher road towards all "fun and games" is a choice.

Not regretting our evil actions and seeing it as good to deceive ourselves we are good is a choice too.

How important truth is for us is a choice.

All these factor in.

And if we know God exists, if we decide to want to be guided by his guidance or seek the world while just blindly following clergy class is a choice too.

If God revealed a book, how we read it, is a choice. Are we playful? Are we sincere? To we impose our opinion on it or seek to learn from it? Do we take seriously the plausibility of it or come towards it seeking faults without acknowledging our bias maybe the fault generator?

Do we see miss the forest for the trees when reading God's book?

This all factors in. Did we reflect over what would prove himself or his religion? This is a choice. To read the book with reflection or ignore it or not read at all except what some people quote here and there is all a choice.
I don't know how much of it is a choice.

I think we're wired the way we are. Some will find faith easy, others impossible. What makes absolute sense to one makes zero sense to another.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Do we want there to be a next world or do we want this life to be the only life?
You begin by making an unwarranted assumption, one that you can not demonstrate, and so is just part of your faith.

But I can see exactly zero evidence that there is "a next world." The world around me is the only world I know. If you have some evidence you'd like to share demonstratating that this is not so, please do.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You begin by making an unwarranted assumption, one that you can not demonstrate, and so is just part of your faith.

But I can see exactly zero evidence that there is "a next world." The world around me is the only world I know. If you have some evidence you'd like to share demonstratating that this is not so, please do.
I'm saying the bias of whether want the next world or want this life to be the only life, plays a role. If don't want God to exist or we want him to be real, all plays a role if we find faith or not. So faith is not just on and off switch. A bunch of things factor in.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm saying the bias of whether want the next world or want this life to be the only life, plays a role. If don't want God to exist or we want him to be real, all plays a role if we find faith or not. So faith is not just on and off switch. A bunch of things factor in.
I'm not sure I'm following.

If you want God to be real, or want an afterlife, you're more likely to find it so?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'm not sure I'm following.

If you want God to be real, or want an afterlife, you're more likely to find it so?
It's a factor. Alone won't decide, but it plays a role. I'm saying a bunch of choices in life factor in and then the outcome is faith or disbelief. For example, if we do a bunch of evil deeds, our hearts might be too dark to be able to see the higher light and would be under control of Satanic forces. This doesn't mean at all we perceive ourselves as evil quite the opposite, we perceive ourselves as guided and the believers as misguided.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Faith isn't a choice. It's a product of one's experiences and one's contemplation upon those experiences.
What we choose to experience and how we contemplate is a choice. I'm saying it's not on and off switch. Different factors lead to be able to push it on and different factors lead it to it being able to push off. When sins are numerous, we have to fight off the sins and repent or the light of faith will disappear.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
What we choose to experience and how we contemplate is a choice. I'm saying it's not on and off switch. Different factors lead to be able to push it on and different factors lead it to it being able to push off. When sins are numerous, we have to fight off the sins and repent or the light of faith will disappear.
I don't believe we get to choose our experiences. If a bird poops on my head, that was not of my choosing. If I get sick, I didn't choose that, either.

While we are shaped by our experiences, I just think our choices are limited. We have some(do I want oatmeal or pancakes), but much is out of our control.
 

SalixIncendium

अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
Staff member
Premium Member
What we choose to experience and how we contemplate is a choice.
How so? If one experiences the death of one's child, is that a choice? Does one choose for their child to die?

If one contemplates that experience, is this something that was premeditated before the child's death was imminent?

It's helpful to think about what another says before one responds. :)
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How so? If one experiences the death of one's child, is that a choice? Does one choose for their child to die?

If one contemplates that experience, is this something that was premeditated before the child's death was imminent?

It's helpful to think about what another says before one responds. :)
We can choose to search the truth regardless if our environment made it easy or not. I understand some people are poor and don't have time to search and are almost into economic slavery, these people, are to be forgiven.

Yes, different circumstances make it easier or harder to seek the truth, but at the end, what I described in the OP are all choices.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't believe we get to choose our experiences. If a bird poops on my head, that was not of my choosing. If I get sick, I didn't choose that, either.

While we are shaped by our experiences, I just think our choices are limited. We have some(do I want oatmeal or pancakes), but much is out of our control.
The choices out of our control, how we react to that and what we do within our control is all matter of will and choice.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
We can choose to search the truth regardless if our environment made it easy or not. I understand some people are poor and don't have time to search and are almost into economic slavery, these people, are to be forgiven.

Yes, different circumstances make it easier or harder to seek the truth, but at the end, what I described in the OP are all choices.
Different people are finding different truths.

I don't think they're choosing to delude themselves. They simply believe that what they have found is true.
 

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
The choices out of our control, how we react to that and what we do within our control is all matter of will and choice.
I don't know about that, either.

If you put an onion on my tongue, I'm going to be repelled. I didn't choose my dislike of onions, I was made that way.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Different people are finding different truths.

I don't think they're choosing to delude themselves. They simply believe that what they have found is true.
I think it's a choice if we seek to build on knowledge which requires proofs or conjecture. A lot people of follow conjecture.
 
Top