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Is feminism off track?
- Thread starter icehorse
- Start date
Can't watch the video at the moment, but to answer this question:
Obviously, like any other social or political movement, feminism is off track in some areas insofar as some feminists are off track in some areas--and I'd also say that this is an issue with some feminists, not feminism itself as a set of ideals. Overall, I think it's on track far more often than it is off. It also seems to me that the frequency with which it is off track is blown out of proportion by many people who want to use it as a way to discredit feminism as a whole.
I think one very common misconception is that pointing out less common or less obvious instances of sexism and misogyny necessarily implies overlooking more common or more obvious ones. I don't believe that to be the case; anyone could point out something like sexism in mass media and at the same time also point out FGM, domestic abuse, and sexual assault.
I personally think feminism has accomplished so much of value that it is not given enough credit by the many people who nowadays try to dismiss it as "hyperbolic," "sexist," etc. Feminism is one of few ideologies or movements that I think are universally beneficial--that is, regardless of cultural, geographical, or social differences. I believe its benefits transcend those.
Obviously, like any other social or political movement, feminism is off track in some areas insofar as some feminists are off track in some areas--and I'd also say that this is an issue with some feminists, not feminism itself as a set of ideals. Overall, I think it's on track far more often than it is off. It also seems to me that the frequency with which it is off track is blown out of proportion by many people who want to use it as a way to discredit feminism as a whole.
I think one very common misconception is that pointing out less common or less obvious instances of sexism and misogyny necessarily implies overlooking more common or more obvious ones. I don't believe that to be the case; anyone could point out something like sexism in mass media and at the same time also point out FGM, domestic abuse, and sexual assault.
I personally think feminism has accomplished so much of value that it is not given enough credit by the many people who nowadays try to dismiss it as "hyperbolic," "sexist," etc. Feminism is one of few ideologies or movements that I think are universally beneficial--that is, regardless of cultural, geographical, or social differences. I believe its benefits transcend those.
Indeed. I should have tried to summarize more of the video. One premise that the female speaker starts with, is that she benefits every day from the feminists that came before her.
I guess her main point is that today we have a triage situation on our hands, and we don't seem to be focusing on the critical issues.
Did you watch *any* of the video? How about just trying the first 5 minutes?
At about 9:20 she talks about how its not just feminism but that ideas about human rights have slipped, and I think that is her best point. So feminism has suffered and many people have shifted to trivial issues because of a backslide away from common liberal human rights. I think she has hit it on the nose.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Once you divide people in whatever way such as feminism, you end up with more problems than there ever was, its childish and stupid, of course there are bad men, and of course there are bad women.
What socio-political, spiritual or civil group does not have people or individual calls to action which are off track?
First off, congrats on mod status!
Second, I'd ask you to watch the first 5-10 minutes. Of course you can make the claim you make, but it's really non-responsive. The question at hand (and I think you know this), is whether a significant percentage of the group has lost its way.
Thanks!
I'm on my phone so I don't usually watch videos on it. But how is the video estimating a 'significant percentage' of feminists?
I cannot do the speaker justice. I believe it's 14 minutes well worth listening to.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
All ism's are of track, there just beliefs that really mean nothing, well in my opinion that is.
A year or so ago, I searched the internet, & counted about 2 dozen kinds of feminism.
Some looked off the rails.
Some looked cromulent.
Some looked off the rails.
Some looked cromulent.
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I think feminism is much misunderstood and more complex an issue. There are many women going back to the 1700's fighting for human rights, were they feminists simply because they were women? To quote the slogan, 'women's rights are human rights'.
Have some areas of the movement been trivialized, yes, but I don't think it has misdirected the overall movement that remains activist.
There continues to be resistance to feminism within academia and no where is this more evident than within the Catholic Church in its opposition to feminist theologians.
Have some areas of the movement been trivialized, yes, but I don't think it has misdirected the overall movement that remains activist.
There continues to be resistance to feminism within academia and no where is this more evident than within the Catholic Church in its opposition to feminist theologians.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I don't know, as a percentage, whether most feminists are off-track or not. However, most of the most highly vocal ones are, which, at the very least, creates the impression that feminism, as a whole, is off-track.
I suspect, as with most ideologies, most people are rather moderate and reasonable, but are also rather quiet.
I suspect, as with most ideologies, most people are rather moderate and reasonable, but are also rather quiet.
Or it could be that the ones that are loud and off track are getting easy attention precisely because they're so extreme, and the moderates are still speaking out but not in a way that garners as much attention from their opposition. I've been to plenty of panels, symposiums and book readings as well as political meetings for feminists that don't sound anything like the oft focused tumblr teenager examples.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
That's part of the quiet vs. loud aspect.
I know, but like in the example of radical Islam, say, many people say that moderates don't speak out enough against the radical aspect, despite that none of their outlets for receiving any such speech is only focused on the radical aspects, because that's what gets ratings. So there's this perpetual loop of demanding to hear the moderate voice when, no matter how much moderate voice there is, it's not what is getting broadcasted. So the 'loud vs quiet' aspect has nothing to do with how dedicated the moderates are at speaking out.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I perceive this as both a relevant issue and as an easy rationalization. I'm sure the weight and application of these components varies widely.
Leaning on my tagline from Confucius: I believe the average person in the West, who doesn't really know much about Islam, believes that Islam is "just another religion". As such, I think it's common for western feminists to take the stance that "all women's issues are the same". I don't think there is bad intention here, just some ignorance. The media feeds the West the line that "Islam is a religion of peace". It's natural to assume some equivalent experience, e.g. "here's how my life as a woman is in the West, Muslim women in the ME probably have similar experiences".
So the first step here is to get the word out that: Women in the West - while still not playing on a level field with men - are FAR more empowered and free and safe, than women in the ME.
I don't think that that basic fact is well understood in the West.