Is Fundamentalism a Religious Movement or a Psychological Disorder?

[sooda]

Please! You just don’t want to even consider reasoning on anything.
Szostak himself said the drawing was inaccurate, and you’re ignoring it.
Tour explained it well.

I’m done. This is not the thread for this.

He's the Messianic Jew they call Liar for Jesus.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Szostak to Hurd (May 17, 2019), “What I did was to explain the use of the simplified diagrams as a means of communicating the chemistry to a general audience (and note, even chemists by convention draw molecular structures without showing most hydrogen atoms). At the time he appeared to have no problem accepting this explanation, but I guess it did not stick.” '

“At the time” was after the apology was made! Szostak guesses “it [Szostak’s explanation] did not stick”?!

That’s saying that Tour called him a liar “after” Szostak’s explanation! It was before it. That’s just plain disingenuous.

“Disco’tutes”.....no wonder he gets railed at. Real grownup behavior.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It really is.

How’s that? Exposing lies is neither religious, nor a disorder.
Espousing them, maybe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

“At the time” was after the apology was made! Szostak guesses “it [Szostak’s explanation] did not stick”?!

That’s saying that Tour called him a liar “after” Szostak’s explanation! It was before it. That’s just plain disingenuous.

“Disco’tutes”.....no wonder he gets railed at. Real grownup behavior.

Yes, after Tour made his fake apology Szostak explained the simplified drawings to Tour. Tour lied about that too. You seem to have trouble following this discussion. Your second paragraph makes no sense.

Let me explain to you again. Tour, in case you forgot is the liar here. One of his lies was to call Szostak a liar. That was a little too much for Tour. He was probably heavily criticised for that. He called up Szostak to give a fake apology. During that conversation Szostak explained Tour's supposed mistake about the simplified drawings. That explanation did not take. Tour went back to his lie about them.

 

[Firemorphic]

Is fundamentalism a religious movement or a psychological disorder?

The four most studied fundamentalisms by scientists and scholars are the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Hindu variations of the phenomenon. There is a wide range of informed opinion about fundamentalism, but most people find fundamentalism remarkably similar regardless of which religion it is associated with.

There is indeed some scientific support for the possibility fundamentalism is more of a psychological disorder than a religion or religious movement. For instance, see Chapters Three (page 75), Four (page 106), and related pages in Robert Altemeyer's introduction to authoritarianism, which can be found here (pdf).

As for myself, I believe calling fundamentalism a "religion" might be like calling Bipolar Mood Disorder a "philosophy". The evidence seems headed in that direction.

Your thoughts?*



*Please read Chapters Three and Four in Altemeyer before responding -- unless you are very familiar with the science on this subject.

EDIT: As I remarked to Dave in a post in this thread: It intrigues me that fundamentalism might be characterized as a religious movement piggybacking on a psychological disorder.

EDIT: To clarify, I am suggesting that -- at the very least -- fundamentalism is most likely significantly more strongly associated with dysfunctional thinking and/or moods than is, say, mainstream Catholicism, Reform Judaism, etc. Beyond that, I suspect fundamentalist ideologies tend to be especially attractive to people suffering from one or more mental illnesses and tend to be just as unattractive to relatively healthy people. In other words, I think it is likely more fundamentalists are mentally ill than members of similar groups, and likely that fundamentalism tends to attract mentally ill people and tends to repulse mentally healthy people.

EDIT: Try thinking of "mental illness" as "thoughts and moods that are conducive to, and/or symptomatic of, dysfunctional behavior."

I think it's clearly more a psychological disorder because of how it's not particularly a religious exclusive phenomena. However encountering it should make any sane person barf.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

How’s that? Exposing lies is neither religious, nor a disorder.
Espousing them, maybe.

Fundamentalist Christians, who are typically Creationist, believe and accept numerous distortions and deceptions that are scientifically only accepted in their own circles. And it is abnormal behavior typically seen when society collectively has went to hell. In any other situation, if it doesn't have the cover of religion, it would be considered cult behaviors to just about everyone except for radical anti government loons (think Timothy McVeigh), and cult members themselves.
And don't forget, this group is also responsible for churning out people who reject medical care in favor of prayer. Not enough states or nations yet have had the good senses to ban the practice when children are involved. Any other time, any other example this would be considered grandiose and delusional behaviors. Again, they are symptoms and indications of a psychotic disorder in any other group. These sorts of behaviors are seen in people with schizophrenia - try explaining that though when you have no idea whats going on but it's undeniable they are different, and can be intensely religious.

 

[shmogie]

No idea what you're talking about.


Again, no idea what you're talking about.

I am talking about fundamentalist beliefs that are signs of mental illness

 

[shmogie]

I am aware. I am also aware that similar thinking justifies the infliction of dire and serious injuries to other. For example, "convertion therapy." It doesn't work. It makes people depressed and suicidal all because they are taught to be ashamed and embarrassed of who they are, and that who they are will lead them to Hell. Or it works for awhile, as many trendy fad lifestyles do, and then it fades, back to into the negative psychologically. That "therapy" makes people sick and is known for killing some. Yet, Fundamentalist Christians are pretty much the only ones who support it. Everyone else has renounced it and condemned it.
And another example of Fundamentalist behaviors that appear mentally ill are where this is a LBGT youth, chances are pretty good the child has Fundamentalist parents who rejected them and kicked them out of their home. Such a lack of empathy, especially towards one's own child, under any other circumstances the parents would be subjected to a mental health screening and treatment recommended because such a lack of empathy is a symptom of a psychotic illness.
And don't forget the delusions. There is no evidence for Noah's flood, but tons of evidence to suggest it never happened. There is no evidence for a confusion of languages. There is no evidence for a Biblical Genesis. There is no evidence that all the Founding Fathers were Christian and wanted to establish America on Christian values. But yet these things are all taught as true in some Fundamentalist home schooling curriculum. And often believed, typically and often, by Fundamentalists. Even Catholics, who believe in some sort of weird alchemical transmutation, and most other non-Fundamentalists denominations, have accepted what we've learned over the past thousands of years. Especially in developed nations, Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists are largely the only ones left who still embrace aspects of what passed for morality and ethics in the Bronze Age, and the mythos and traditional stories of those who didn't know yet how big the Earth really is or what causes thunder and rain.
Basically, Fundamentalists aren't behaving much differently than the Catholics were during the days of Copernicus and Galileo.

I find nothing you posted in the NT, so it does not apply to a True Christian fundamentalist.

 

[JJ50]

Fundamentalist Christians, who are typically Creationist, believe and accept numerous distortions and deceptions that are scientifically only accepted in their own circles. And it is abnormal behavior typically seen when society collectively has went to hell. In any other situation, if it doesn't have the cover of religion, it would be considered cult behaviors to just about everyone except for radical anti government loons (think Timothy McVeigh), and cult members themselves.
And don't forget, this group is also responsible for churning out people who reject medical care in favor of prayer. Not enough states or nations yet have had the good senses to ban the practice when children are involved. Any other time, any other example this would be considered grandiose and delusional behaviors. Again, they are symptoms and indications of a psychotic disorder in any other group. These sorts of behaviors are seen in people with schizophrenia - try explaining that though when you have no idea whats going on but it's undeniable they are different, and can be intensely religious.

Parents here in the UK can be taken to court if they refuse medical treatment and opt for prayer where their children are concerned.

 

[Spartan]

I am aware. I am also aware that similar thinking justifies the infliction of dire and serious injuries to other. For example, "convertion therapy." It doesn't work. It makes people depressed and suicidal all because they are taught to be ashamed and embarrassed of who they are, and that who they are will lead them to Hell. Or it works for awhile, as many trendy fad lifestyles do, and then it fades, back to into the negative psychologically. That "therapy" makes people sick and is known for killing some. Yet, Fundamentalist Christians are pretty much the only ones who support it. Everyone else has renounced it and condemned it.
And another example of Fundamentalist behaviors that appear mentally ill are where this is a LBGT youth, chances are pretty good the child has Fundamentalist parents who rejected them and kicked them out of their home. Such a lack of empathy, especially towards one's own child, under any other circumstances the parents would be subjected to a mental health screening and treatment recommended because such a lack of empathy is a symptom of a psychotic illness.
And don't forget the delusions. There is no evidence for Noah's flood, but tons of evidence to suggest it never happened. There is no evidence for a confusion of languages. There is no evidence for a Biblical Genesis. There is no evidence that all the Founding Fathers were Christian and wanted to establish America on Christian values. But yet these things are all taught as true in some Fundamentalist home schooling curriculum. And often believed, typically and often, by Fundamentalists. Even Catholics, who believe in some sort of weird alchemical transmutation, and most other non-Fundamentalists denominations, have accepted what we've learned over the past thousands of years. Especially in developed nations, Christian and Muslim Fundamentalists are largely the only ones left who still embrace aspects of what passed for morality and ethics in the Bronze Age, and the mythos and traditional stories of those who didn't know yet how big the Earth really is or what causes thunder and rain.
Basically, Fundamentalists aren't behaving much differently than the Catholics were during the days of Copernicus and Galileo.

If you want to talk about Bronze Age morality, then liberals should look in the mirror, and reflect on their Bronze Age Sodom and Gomorrah mentality. And all the other morally-repugnant behaviors and/or beliefs they engage in also, like the wholesale slaughter of the innocents - shades of the Canaanites.

 

[sooda]

If you want to talk about Bronze Age morality, then liberals should look in the mirror, and reflect on their Bronze Age Sodom and Gomorrah mentality. And all the other morally-repugnant behaviors and/or beliefs they engage in also, like the wholesale slaughter of the innocents - shades of the Canaanites.

LOLOL.. Sodom and Gomorrah, if they existed at all, were long gone before Adam and Eve.

The Israelites were Canaanites. See Ugaritic tablets.

 

[Jose Fly]

I am talking about fundamentalist beliefs that are signs of mental illness

Well, given that I've never said anything about mental illness, I still don't know what you were talking about.

 

[Spartan]

LOLOL.. Sodom and Gomorrah, if they existed at all, were long gone before Adam and Eve.

Your time table is all screwed up.

The Israelites were Canaanites. See Ugaritic tablets.

Nuts.

 

[sooda]

Your time table is all screwed up.



Nuts.

You haven't ever heard of the Ugaritic tablets? They just confirm what scholars have known for 75 years. The Hebrews were north coast Canaanites.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you want to talk about Bronze Age morality, then liberals should look in the mirror, and reflect on their Bronze Age Sodom and Gomorrah mentality. And all the other morally-repugnant behaviors and/or beliefs they engage in also, like the wholesale slaughter of the innocents - shades of the Canaanites.

Which is belief in a myth of your own creation. Truly, how many liberals do you know who condone such violence and rape? What liberal do you know who would offer their own daughters for gang raping?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Parents here in the UK can be taken to court if they refuse medical treatment and opt for prayer where their children are concerned.

As it should be. It's child abuse and endangerment, and in America is considered such under any other circumstances. But it's a "sincerely held religious belief," which gets its own special set of exceptions to the law.
And it's another flair of the ego and arrogance, as when it comes to many things, such as sex ed, is not about what's best for the child, it's about what the parent wants. They say it's religion, but it's all their own ego.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I find nothing you posted in the NT, so it does not apply to a True Christian fundamentalist.

This "true christian" nonsense, is another reason fundamentalism was compared to authoritarian ideologies in the op. Like it or not, Fundamentatalist do sich things because of Pauls words in the NT regarding homosexuality.

 

[Revoltingest]

And it's another flair of the ego and arrogance, as when it comes to many things, such as sex ed, is not about what's best for the child, it's about what the parent wants. They say it's religion, but it's all their own ego.

I disagree.
They really believe that prayer is better than medicine.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I disagree.
They really believe that prayer is better than medicine.

Which is something else we should expect to see of someone with schizophrenia, not healthy adults.

 

[sooda]

jui

Which is belief in a myth of your own creation. Truly, how many liberals do you know who condone such violence and rape? What liberal do you know who would offer their own daughters for gang raping?

Good grief. This myth has NOTHING to do with Liberals. What is ailing you people?