Is Fundamentalism a Religious Movement or a Psychological Disorder?

[Dawnofhope]

My opinion that fundamentalism is most likely a disorder is not held for light and transient reasons. I have been weighing the matter for years. For some of my reasoning on this issue, see chapters three and four in Altemeyer's book (linked to in the OP).

I appreciate its something you’ve spent a great deal of time considering. I may have mentioned I spent seven years as a psychiatry intern so the whole matter of what does and doesn’t constitute a mental disorder was certainly a major them during those years. Having spent the last 12 years in general practice I certainly deal with my fair share of mental disorders. I started to read some of your book. The author is very much coming to terms with religious fundamentalism in America where it affects politics much more than where I live.

One of the major problems with psychiatry disorders is there are no objective tests. It’s all based on what people communicate of themselves and how we experience others. The criteria used by DSM are all sets of symptoms that many of us would experience. Perhaps the most useful criteria is when people’s function affects their work or family life.

There is a definitive exclusion criteria for religious beliefs that are normal for a community. Otherwise whole religious communities become labelled. Then we’ll apply similar criteria to political beliefs. The Moscow school of psychiatry went down that road where political dissidents where diagnosed with this new variant of schizophrenia call sluggish schizophrenia. People were compulsorily detained and treated against their will because the communist state felt threatened. So psychiatry can easily become a tool for social control.

Sluggish schizophrenia - Wikipedia

I don’t like some religious fundamentalists. However, I believe there are much better strategies to counter their negative influences than to label them mentally disordered.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Intellectual dishonesty is not a "different view".

Nor is it a mental disorder.

 

[firedragon]

You're an adult. Surely you know the groups and the type of thinking the word typically refers to.

Okay. In my interpretation of what Fundamentalism means, I think it's fantastic. Rather than going all over the place and doing what every tom, dick and harry tells you to do, rather than worshiping leaders and scholars, you study the fundamentals and stick to them. I like it.

Im sure this is contrasting to your definition which why I asked your definition.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Actually in this case it pretty much does. I have only seen a few dishonest, and one can tell that they are dishonest by the lies that they have to tell, scientists that do not accept evolution. The percentage is lower than the rate of the mentally ill of the population as a whole. And that makes this fact fit rather well in this thread.

I don’t know of any scientist that doesn’t accept the evidence for micro evolution.

 

[PureX]

Fundamentalism is a psychological disorder that often gets expressed through religion, but not exclusively. That same binary extremism can be applied to most ideologies and examples of it can certainly be found in politics, economics, and sociology.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Fundamentalism also ignores the fact that religions evolve over time to incorporate new ideas or drop old ones.

 

[exchemist]

You seem to be assuming that a type cannot be a disorder. Perhaps you will be able to see how a type can indeed be a disorder if you take a look at these seven traits of authoritarians (according to one researcher) and in each case ask yourself whether the trait is relatively dysfunctional compared to the corresponding trait in a "normal person".

7 Characteristics of Authoritarian People, According to Psychology — Exploring your mind

No, I am simply saying pointing out that identifying a type is not sufficient to show there is a disorder.

And you have not answered my question: where does this author say his RWAs suffer from a disorder?

Or is it that you have decided, yourself, that it is a disorder, while the author says no such thing?

 

[danieldemol]

Is fundamentalism a religious movement or a psychological disorder?

The four most studied fundamentalisms by scientists and scholars are the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Hindu variations of the phenomenon. There is a wide range of informed opinion about fundamentalism, but most people find fundamentalism remarkably similar regardless of which religion it is associated with.

There is indeed some scientific support for the possibility fundamentalism is more of a psychological disorder than a religion or religious movement. For instance, see Chapters Three (page 75), Four (page 106), and related pages in Robert Altemeyer's introduction to authoritarianism, which can be found here (pdf).

As for myself, I believe calling fundamentalism a "religion" might be like calling Bipolar Mood Disorder a "philosophy". The evidence seems headed in that direction.

Your thoughts?*



*Please read Chapters Three and Four in Altemeyer before responding -- unless you are very familiar with the science on this subject.

EDIT: As I remarked to Dave in a post in this thread: It intrigues me that fundamentalism might be characterized as a religious movement piggybacking on a psychological disorder.

EDIT: To clarify, I am suggesting that -- at the very least -- fundamentalism is most likely significantly more strongly associated with dysfunctional thinking and/or moods than is, say, mainstream Catholicism, Reform Judaism, etc. Beyond that, I suspect fundamentalist ideologies tend to be especially attractive to people suffering from one or more mental illnesses and tend to be just as unattractive to relatively healthy people. In other words, I think it is likely more fundamentalists are mentally ill than members of similar groups, and likely that fundamentalism tends to attract mentally ill people and tends to repulse mentally healthy people.

EDIT: Try thinking of "mental illness" as "thoughts and moods that are conducive to, and/or symptomatic of, dysfunctional behavior."

Started trying to read from chapter 3, quickly got stuck, what is an RWA?

 

[LuisDantas]

Disorder.

 

[ChristineM]

Is fundamentalism a religious movement or a psychological disorder?

The four most studied fundamentalisms by scientists and scholars are the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Hindu variations of the phenomenon. There is a wide range of informed opinion about fundamentalism, but most people find fundamentalism remarkably similar regardless of which religion it is associated with.

There is indeed some scientific support for the possibility fundamentalism is more of a psychological disorder than a religion or religious movement. For instance, see Chapters Three (page 75), Four (page 106), and related pages in Robert Altemeyer's introduction to authoritarianism, which can be found here (pdf).

As for myself, I believe calling fundamentalism a "religion" might be like calling Bipolar Mood Disorder a "philosophy". The evidence seems headed in that direction.

Your thoughts?*



*Please read Chapters Three and Four in Altemeyer before responding -- unless you are very familiar with the science on this subject.

EDIT: As I remarked to Dave in a post in this thread: It intrigues me that fundamentalism might be characterized as a religious movement piggybacking on a psychological disorder.

EDIT: To clarify, I am suggesting that -- at the very least -- fundamentalism is most likely significantly more strongly associated with dysfunctional thinking and/or moods than is, say, mainstream Catholicism, Reform Judaism, etc. Beyond that, I suspect fundamentalist ideologies tend to be especially attractive to people suffering from one or more mental illnesses and tend to be just as unattractive to relatively healthy people. In other words, I think it is likely more fundamentalists are mentally ill than members of similar groups, and likely that fundamentalism tends to attract mentally ill people and tends to repulse mentally healthy people.

EDIT: Try thinking of "mental illness" as "thoughts and moods that are conducive to, and/or symptomatic of, dysfunctional behavior."

I have my own hypothesis that may be far fetched or may be worth a study. I am only going off various aspects of knowledge of a lay person (me).

Point 1, it appears that centres of fundimentalism are clustered on limestone bedrock.

Point 2, limestone emits carbon dioxide in the presence of acid.

Point 3, carbon dioxide is known to effect brain function and cause hallucinations.

Point 4, since the start of the industrial revolution rain has become gradually more acidic, markedly so around and downwind of industrial areas

Point 5, many centres of fundimentalism (and limestone bedrock) can usually be found downwind of industrial centres.


That's it, anyone want to set up a multi million dollar study i will glady
sell the rights to the idea to the highest bidder ;-)

 

[Vinayaka]

Good point! But many, many dysfunctional behaviors look like developmental delays. Racism, for instance, could be seen as such.

True, they're interrelated. In education, the developmental delay is often an indicator of something more serious, only to be discovered by trained psychologists. Far tougher in adults.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some extreme fundies I have met over the years appeared to have mental health problems.

I've noticed it too.
And it's just some fundies.
My theory is that most people (no matter where they start) drift towards
or from theologies which suit them. Fundamentalism in this or that faith
offers a range of things one could want, eg, certainty, immortality, parent,
structure, answers. One needn't be mentally ill (clinically) to want any of
those, but one can have maladies which make them attractive.
Fundamentalism would be more a symptom than a cause.

How to discern the clinically ill from the ordinary loony?
- One's beliefs bump into reality in a manner which causes damage, eg,
depression, delusion, physical harm.
- One brings one's illness to the religion. The latter doesn't exacerbate
the former, but the former remains to bring one woe.

Some fundies I know appear more mentally normal & healthy than do I.
But others....let's just say that I hope they're not gun enthusiasts.

 

[Vinayaka]

At least I would not intentionally misscharacterize the views of someone I disagreed with. What reasonable grounds do you have for your seemingly angry and scurrilous allegation that I am saying fundamentalists are "mentally retarded" simply because I disagree with them? Are you not making a bad faith assumption about me that is also an illogical and unfounded claim?

Observation is not criticism, but some folks tend to think it is, when applied in their direction.

 

[Audie]

Nor is it a mental disorder.

Who knows how to define disorder?

In the event, I am not the one who made the
false statement (s).

 

[Audie]

I don’t know of any scientist that doesn’t accept the evidence for micro evolution.

we are not aware of any who make the phony
distinction between micro and macro

And we know of no honest scientist who accepts
creoism.

 

[Audie]

Fundamentalism also ignores the fact that religions evolve over time to incorporate new ideas or drop old ones.

Ignores a whole lot more too besides that

 

[Dawnofhope]

Who knows how to define disorder?

In the event, I am not the one who made the
false statement (s).

I know what is and isn’t a mental disorder. I practiced psychiatry for 7 years. We either use DSM V or ICD 11.

ICD-11

DSM-5

So intellectual dishonesty isn’t a mental disorder, unless you can find a reputable source that says it is.

 

[Vinayaka]

Much of the 'challenge' might lie in the use of the term 'fundie' as a pejorative. I've been accused of being one. Back in India I mentioned that to a friend's adult daughter. She was educated through high school in the west, but the family returned to India. She just looked at me and said, "No, you're not. You're just an enthusiastic Hindu."

In the anti-fundie crowd, there is also a tendency to overgeneralise.

Not all Mormons are fundamentalists. Not all Baptists are fundamentalists, Not all Baha'is are fundamentalists. Having said that, from observation, it does seem to be more rampant in the less educated.

To me, unless you get to know the individual as an individual, his/her likes and dislikes, behaviour etc., then don't assume much at all.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Is fundamentalism a religious movement or a psychological disorder?

The four most studied fundamentalisms by scientists and scholars are the Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Hindu variations of the phenomenon. There is a wide range of informed opinion about fundamentalism, but most people find fundamentalism remarkably similar regardless of which religion it is associated with.

There is indeed some scientific support for the possibility fundamentalism is more of a psychological disorder than a religion or religious movement. For instance, see Chapters Three (page 75), Four (page 106), and related pages in Robert Altemeyer's introduction to authoritarianism, which can be found here (pdf).

As for myself, I believe calling fundamentalism a "religion" might be like calling Bipolar Mood Disorder a "philosophy". The evidence seems headed in that direction.

Your thoughts?*



*Please read Chapters Three and Four in Altemeyer before responding -- unless you are very familiar with the science on this subject.

EDIT: As I remarked to Dave in a post in this thread: It intrigues me that fundamentalism might be characterized as a religious movement piggybacking on a psychological disorder.

EDIT: To clarify, I am suggesting that -- at the very least -- fundamentalism is most likely significantly more strongly associated with dysfunctional thinking and/or moods than is, say, mainstream Catholicism, Reform Judaism, etc. Beyond that, I suspect fundamentalist ideologies tend to be especially attractive to people suffering from one or more mental illnesses and tend to be just as unattractive to relatively healthy people. In other words, I think it is likely more fundamentalists are mentally ill than members of similar groups, and likely that fundamentalism tends to attract mentally ill people and tends to repulse mentally healthy people.

EDIT: Try thinking of "mental illness" as "thoughts and moods that are conducive to, and/or symptomatic of, dysfunctional behavior."

Is rabid atheism, existing to send constant posts against religion on a religious forum, a religious movement or a psychological disorder?

 

[Ponder This]

As I see it, fundamentalism closes the mind to other possibilities. Any fundamentalist view, religious or nay, are, IMO, a product of succumbing to the ego. A disorder? Depends on ones perspective, I suppose.

I notice that everyone thinks my office is in disorder... but I don't appear to have any difficulties operating within it.