Is God Male or Gender-Neutral? Episcopal Church Begins Debate

[Skwim]

"The Episcopal Church debates whether to change its Book of Common Prayer.

The terms for God, in the poetic language of the prayers written for centuries, have almost always been male: Father. King. Lord.

And in the Episcopal Church, the language of prayer matters. The Book of Common Prayer, the text used in every Episcopal congregation, is cherished as a core element of Episcopal identity.

This week, the church is debating whether to overhaul that prayer book — in large part to make clear that God doesn’t have a gender.

“As long as ‘men’ and ‘God’ are in the same category, our work toward equity will not just be incomplete. I honestly think it won’t matter in some ways,” said the Rev. Wil Gafney, a professor of the Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Texas who is on the committee recommending a change to the gendered language in the prayer book.

Gafney says that when she preaches, she sometimes changes the words of the Book of Common Prayer, even though Episcopal priests aren’t formally allowed to do so. Sometime she switches a word like “King” to a gender-neutral term like “Ruler” or “Creator.” Sometimes she uses “She” instead of “He.” Sometimes, she sticks with the masculine tradition. ” ‘Our Father,’ I won’t fiddle with that,” she said, invoking the beginning of the Lord’s Prayer that Jesus taught his disciples to say in the book of Matthew."
source​

So . . . is god male, evidently determined by possession of male genitalia, or is he gender neutral: lacks all gender identifying characteristics.

.

 

[Sunstone]

This is still up for debate?

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

How can God have any gender?

 

[Frater Sisyphus]

Deities are different though, in most forms of Orthodox Christianity, it is: The Father, Son and Holy Spirit - which only really leaves leniency for the Holy Spirit

 

[HonestJoe]

You’d think that if God cared that much, he’d let them know.

 

[stvdv]

So . . . is god male, evidently determined by possession of male genitalia, or is he gender neutra

I believe God "to create his genitalia at will; when needed". Running around with Huge boobs or Huge penis. is just too much trouble IMHO.
[I have first hand proof that even some Saints can do that, so why not God?. He is know for OmniPotent, so should be able to control this]

But Again: @Sunstone: Would it not be more efficient to create a definition of God we all can agree on? Limit the genitalia a bit or so?

 

[The Anointed]

"The Episcopal Church debates whether to change its Book of Common Prayer.

The terms for God, in the poetic language of the prayers written for centuries, have almost always been male: Father. King. Lord.

And in the Episcopal Church, the language of prayer matters. The Book of Common Prayer, the text used in every Episcopal congregation, is cherished as a core element of Episcopal identity.

This week, the church is debating whether to overhaul that prayer book — in large part to make clear that God doesn’t have a gender.

“As long as ‘men’ and ‘God’ are in the same category, our work toward equity will not just be incomplete. I honestly think it won’t matter in some ways,” said the Rev. Wil Gafney, a professor of the Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Texas who is on the committee recommending a change to the gendered language in the prayer book.

Gafney says that when she preaches, she sometimes changes the words of the Book of Common Prayer, even though Episcopal priests aren’t formally allowed to do so. Sometime she switches a word like “King” to a gender-neutral term like “Ruler” or “Creator.” Sometimes she uses “She” instead of “He.” Sometimes, she sticks with the masculine tradition. ” ‘Our Father,’ I won’t fiddle with that,” she said, invoking the beginning of the Lord’s Prayer that Jesus taught his disciples to say in the book of Matthew."
source​

So . . . is god male, evidently determined by possession of male genitalia, or is he gender neutral: lacks all gender identifying characteristics.

.

God is an androgynous being who created Mankind in his image, male and female he created them and named them ADAM. Male man and female man.

 

[Jumi]

Church of Sweden is ahead of them.

 

[Earthling]

Jehovah God is neutral, being spirit in form and having no genitalia. He, along with all of the spirit creatures (angels) are always in the masculine form, but God created man and woman in his image, which referees to personality traits more than an actual or certainly physical likeness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Why can't god be a woman?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"The Episcopal Church debates whether to change its Book of Common Prayer.

The terms for God, in the poetic language of the prayers written for centuries, have almost always been male: Father. King. Lord.

And in the Episcopal Church, the language of prayer matters. The Book of Common Prayer, the text used in every Episcopal congregation, is cherished as a core element of Episcopal identity.

This week, the church is debating whether to overhaul that prayer book — in large part to make clear that God doesn’t have a gender.

“As long as ‘men’ and ‘God’ are in the same category, our work toward equity will not just be incomplete. I honestly think it won’t matter in some ways,” said the Rev. Wil Gafney, a professor of the Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Texas who is on the committee recommending a change to the gendered language in the prayer book.

Gafney says that when she preaches, she sometimes changes the words of the Book of Common Prayer, even though Episcopal priests aren’t formally allowed to do so. Sometime she switches a word like “King” to a gender-neutral term like “Ruler” or “Creator.” Sometimes she uses “She” instead of “He.” Sometimes, she sticks with the masculine tradition. ” ‘Our Father,’ I won’t fiddle with that,” she said, invoking the beginning of the Lord’s Prayer that Jesus taught his disciples to say in the book of Matthew."
source​

So . . . is god male, evidently determined by possession of male genitalia, or is he gender neutral: lacks all gender identifying characteristics.

.

If God is omnipotent, then God is both male and female:

- can God produce gametes that can fertilize an egg? If God can do anything, then yes; therefore, God is male.

- can God bear offspring or produce eggs? If God can do anything, then yes; therefore, God is female.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jehovah God is neutral, being spirit in form and having no genitalia.

Sex isn't necessarily about genitalia, especially when we're talking about a being that isn't even in Earth's evolutionary tree.

The one defining characteristic of sex is the ability to produce gametes: organisms that can produce gametes that fertilize other gametes are male; organisms that can produce gametes that are fertilized - or that can result in young without fertilization - are female. Some organisms have one sex for their whole lives, some can change sex, and some can have more than one sex simultaneously.

He, along with all of the spirit creatures (angels) are always in the masculine form, but God created man and woman in his image, which referees to personality traits more than an actual or certainly physical likeness.

What's "the masculine form?" Do you mean the human "masculine form?" There's no universal standard for sexual dimorphism: for some species, the female is larger; for others, the male is larger. For some species, the male has the more elaborate plumage, for others, it's the female. Whether a species exhibits secondary sex characteristics - and what those characteristics are - varies across a wide spectrum.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It occurs to me that the people in this thread might be using the terms "male" and "female" (and in one case "neutral") to refer to different things. Are we talking about:

- genetics (or whatever the divine equivalent is)
- reproductive capability
- physiology
- gender identity

As I mentioned earlier, if we're talking about reproductive capability, then God is both.

However, if the Father and Son identify as male but the Holy Spirit doesn't identify with any gender, then if we're talking about gender identity, then maybe it's correct to say that God the Father is something like trans male and the Trinity as a whole is genderqueer.

 

[Earthling]

Sex isn't necessarily about genitalia, especially when we're talking about a being that isn't even in Earth's evolutionary tree.

The one defining characteristic of sex is the ability to produce gametes: organisms that can produce gametes that fertilize other gametes are male; organisms that can produce gametes that are fertilized - or that can result in young without fertilization - are female. Some organisms have one sex for their whole lives, some can change sex, and some can have more than one sex simultaneously.

God is a spirit who created all the spirit creatures to follow. They don't multiply, copulate or reproduce.

What's "the masculine form?" Do you mean the human "masculine form?" There's no universal standard for sexual dimorphism: for some species, the female is larger; for others, the male is larger. For some species, the male has the more elaborate plumage, for others, it's the female. Whether a species exhibits secondary sex characteristics - and what those characteristics are - varies across a wide spectrum.

When I say masculine form I mean linguistic, the Hebrew and Greek have gender, like in Spanish mesa (table) is feminine and libro (book) is masculine.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God is a spirit who created all the spirit creatures to follow. They don't multiply, copulate or reproduce.

"Don't" or "can't?" We're talking about capacity, not past deeds. An organism can still be male, female or both even if they have no offspring.

When I say masculine form I mean linguistic, the Hebrew and Greek have gender, like in Spanish mesa (table) is feminine and libro (book) is masculine.

Or like the masculine "gato" refers to both male and female cats? Do you think this implies that all cats are "masculine?"

 

[Earthling]

"Don't" or "can't?" We're talking about capacity, not past deeds. An organism can still be male, female or both even if they have no offspring.

An organism is material, animal, or plant life form, not spirit. Spirit's don't have the capability to reproduce unless you consider God's creation to have meant to be some variation of reproduction in one of the methods you presented. Now, I should say, that in the past these spirit creatures were capable of reproducing hybrids when they took the physical form of humans. (see bottom of this post)

Or like the masculine "gato" refers to both male and female cats? Do you think this implies that all cats are "masculine?"

Masculine like gato is both male and female cats. Very good example. I don't know why that hadn't occurred to me. Excellent.

In addressing the question of whether or not angels have sex the specific form which they may take must be considered. In spirit form angels are sexless, they have no sex organs. No gender. They are referred to in the masculine but this doesn’t necessitate a literal translation no more than an object like a ship being referred to in the feminine means that it is a female capable of having sex. It is true, however, that whenever they have taken the form of the physical they have always been men. As men they have the capability to have sexual relations, just as in the case of Genesis 6:2, 4.

Jude 1:6-7 points out that these rebellious angels didn’t keep their original position (estate, KJV). They were no longer in spirit form. 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 reveals what happened to these angels after the destruction of Noah’s day. They returned to spirit form and in heaven were reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness. Peter uses the Greek word Tartarus, which means "the lowest place," a condition of debasement. Tartarus is sometimes translated hell, but it is actually in heaven and the condition of debasement given to the disobedient angels, not a literal place. At 1 Peter 3:18-20 Peter mentions that upon his death and ascension to heaven Jesus, in spirit form, preached to these angels.

Some consider Genesis 19:1-4 an indication that some men find angels sexually irresistible, which I think is missing the point. The men in question seemed to find everything sexually irresistible. I doubt very much that they knew these men who visited Lot as men were actually angels.

 

[Skwim]

God is an androgynous being who created Mankind in his image, male and female he created them and named them ADAM. Male man and female man.

Partly male and partly female then. Interesting. Odd, but interesting. Makes one wonder what he/she looks like.

.

 

[Skwim]

Jehovah God is neutral, being spirit in form and having no genitalia. He, along with all of the spirit creatures (angels) are always in the masculine form,

So, why do you think the notion of the masculine form arose rather than the feminine or neuter forms? Off hand, I would think that as the one who was creator of everything, and was to be designated as one gender or the other, god would be better cast in the feminine form.

.

 

[Twilight Hue]

"The Episcopal Church debates whether to change its Book of Common Prayer.

The terms for God, in the poetic language of the prayers written for centuries, have almost always been male: Father. King. Lord.

And in the Episcopal Church, the language of prayer matters. The Book of Common Prayer, the text used in every Episcopal congregation, is cherished as a core element of Episcopal identity.

This week, the church is debating whether to overhaul that prayer book — in large part to make clear that God doesn’t have a gender.

“As long as ‘men’ and ‘God’ are in the same category, our work toward equity will not just be incomplete. I honestly think it won’t matter in some ways,” said the Rev. Wil Gafney, a professor of the Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School in Texas who is on the committee recommending a change to the gendered language in the prayer book.

Gafney says that when she preaches, she sometimes changes the words of the Book of Common Prayer, even though Episcopal priests aren’t formally allowed to do so. Sometime she switches a word like “King” to a gender-neutral term like “Ruler” or “Creator.” Sometimes she uses “She” instead of “He.” Sometimes, she sticks with the masculine tradition. ” ‘Our Father,’ I won’t fiddle with that,” she said, invoking the beginning of the Lord’s Prayer that Jesus taught his disciples to say in the book of Matthew."
source​

So . . . is god male, evidently determined by possession of male genitalia, or is he gender neutral: lacks all gender identifying characteristics.

.

How can the written Bible possibly be a divinely Inspired work of God when people can't even figure this one out?

Well givin God has no wife, but still had a son, would undoubtfully lead me to the conclusion that God is essentially a hermaphrodite.

 

[Earthling]

So, why do you think the notion of the masculine form arose rather than the feminine or neuter forms? Off hand, I would think that as the one who was creator of everything, and was to be designated as one gender or the other, god would be better cast in the feminine form.

.

What if he had, what difference would it make?