Is God not entitled to take a parent's life?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

MidnightBlue brought up something in the "Is Gay Marriage Good for Children?" thread that I think warrants its own discussion:

My view is definitely based on my religious beliefs. I believe God ordained that children are entitled, by divine design, to be raised by a father and a mother. There are circumstances when this is not possible, such as when divorce can't be avoided, but the ideal is to have a father and a mother in the same home. I can't think of a scenario where I would favor a gay adoption. I don't want to offend, but I do believe that same gender sex is wrong and children should be taught that. They should be taught to love one another and to not hate anyone for their life style, but they should also be taught God's law concerning sexuality.

Then God is not a very good designer, and what he ordains doesn't have much influence. None of my great-grandparents were divorced, but three of my grandparents lost at least one parent in childhood, and my paternal grandfather lost both parents. It is astonishing that people will make such obviously nonsensical statements about God's will and what children are entitled to. What they really mean is that they feel entitled to impose their views on other families.

My grandmother also lost her father at a young age.

So... if it has been ordained by God that a child is entitled to a mother and a father, is God obliged to make sure that a child's parents live until the child reaches adulthood? If not, why not?

 

[w00t]

If you believe the virgin birth story old God felt randy and got a very young girl pregnant. But as he thought kids needed two parents he persuaded Joseph to bring up the boy as his own. Joseph was a decent guy, whilst God was a creep!

 

[Ringer]

MidnightBlue brought up something in the "Is Gay Marriage Good for Children?" thread that I think warrants its own discussion:


My grandmother also lost her father at a young age.

So... if it has been ordained by God that a child is entitled to a mother and a father, is God obliged to make sure that a child's parents live until the child reaches adulthood? If not, why not?

I can't answer for Scott C. but I believe what he is saying is that if traditional style parenting seems to have been the plan of God from the get-go. Just because there may be exceptions to whether or not this parenting partnership can continue throughout the child's development, I don't see this as a valid argument to contest God's purpose for parenthood. So to answer the question, I don't think God is obligated to do provide us with good parents, not to mention parents at all for a certain length of time. To do so would say that God is limited to what he could do in someone's life based on their earthly circumstances which I don't think is the case at all.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I can't answer for Scott C. but I believe what he is saying is that if traditional style parenting seems to have been the plan of God from the get-go. Just because there may be exceptions to whether or not this parenting partnership can continue throughout the child's development, I don't see this as a valid argument to contest God's purpose for parenthood.

But I'm not making an argument against "God's purpose for parenthood". In terms of this debate, I've accepted the version already presented, and am asking whether God's actions in other regards are in keeping with the implications of "God's purpose for parenthood" as has been claimed.

I'm not questioning whether children have a right to a mother and a father. For the purposes of this debate, I'm taking that as given. My question is that since children have a right to a mother and a father, would it be wrong of God to deprive children of that right by allowing (or causing) a parent to die?

If "the traditional style of parenting" (BTW - I'm still rather fuzzy on what that means - is it enough that the parents are hetero, or does the wife have to stay home with the kids as well?) is the plan of God, that plan is thwarted by death of one or both parents just as much as, if not more than, homosexuality of one or both parents.

So to answer the question, I don't think God is obligated to do provide us with good parents, not to mention parents at all for a certain length of time. To do so would say that God is limited to what he could do in someone's life based on their earthly circumstances which I don't think is the case at all.

So children aren't entitled to be raised by a mother and a father?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

God's actions in other regards are in keeping with the implications of "God's purpose for parenthood" as has been claimed.

No.

.....

 

[kdrier]

My question is that since children have a right to a mother and a father, would it be wrong of God to deprive children of that right by allowing (or causing) a parent to die?

They have a right to one yes, they are born with one. A child always has a biological mother and father obviously. "God" sets up a child to have a mother and father, and the rest is history, given the assumption we have freewill, which is another thread... and if we don't have freewill, then everything happens for a reason. Sometimes you have to close one door to open another.

 

[Ringer]

I'm not questioning whether children have a right to a mother and a father. For the purposes of this debate, I'm taking that as given. My question is that since children have a right to a mother and a father, would it be wrong of God to deprive children of that right by allowing (or causing) a parent to die?

No

If "the traditional style of parenting" (BTW - I'm still rather fuzzy on what that means - is it enough that the parents are hetero, or does the wife have to stay home with the kids as well?) is the plan of God, that plan is thwarted by death of one or both parents just as much as, if not more than, homosexuality of one or both parents.

I believe Traditional is the politically correct term for a heterosexual marriage and doesn't take into account whether the mother is a stay-at-home mother or not.

So children aren't entitled to be raised by a mother and a father?

I think being raised by a loving father and mother is the most nuturing environment a child can be brought up in. It's not up to me to say whether they are entitled to it or not as I dont know God's plan for everyone's life. In hindesight, maybe the fact that somebody wasn't raised in a loving home was the reason that they are more successful of a human being. God doesn't work only in those lives that are straight out of the book.

I hoped I answered what you were looking for.

 

[Draka]

So, "god" set up for some children to be born to mothers and fathers who are perhaps alcoholic and abusive...but that's ok because it is still a mother and father? Yet, two, perhaps non-drinking, pacifist gay men would be wrong in god's eyes to care for and raise a child. Maybe even that exact child that was abused by their parents and removed from the home?

Or what about mothers dying during childbirth? How can one say that the child is still provided a mother? Or a father who dies while the mother is still pregnant? The child is not born with a father.

If "god" intends for children to have a mother and father to raise them...he's doing an awful job.

Personally, any loving couple willing to take a child into their home and love and raise them should be applauded...regardless of their genders.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

They have a right to one yes, they are born with one. A child always has a biological mother and father obviously. "God" sets up a child to have a mother and father, and the rest is history, given the assumption we have freewill, which is another thread... and if we don't have freewill, then everything happens for a reason. Sometimes you have to close one door to open another.

And it's acceptable for that "door" to take the form of death, but not homosexuality?

What can we infer of God's intent if we assume that it was He who placed both attraction for the same sex and the desire to raise a family in the minds of same-sex couples?

 

[Starfish]

So... if it has been ordained by God that a child is entitled to a mother and a father, is God obliged to make sure that a child's parents live until the child reaches adulthood? If not, why not?

Do we toss aside the whole goal of every child being raised by a father and mother because sometimes a parent dies? No, because the death of a young parent is relatively rare and if we do all we can to set up the ideal situation for a child, it will usually happen.

My mother died when I was a child. Fortunately she had chosen to marry a good man, who was my father, and I wasn't left alone. Plus I had supportive grandparents, aunts and uncles, my best friend's mom, my 4-H leader, church friends. I look back on my childhood as happy and filled with compensating blessings from God.

So we do ALL WE CAN for our children and God will do the rest.

 

[Smoke]

Do we toss aside the whole goal of every child being raised by a father and mother because sometimes a parent dies?

Whose goal?

No, because the death of a young parent is relatively rare and if we do all we can to set up the ideal situation for a child, it will usually happen.

The ideal situation is for a child to have two loving parents, regardless of sex. Those who believe that a child should be denied two loving parents because those parents don't observe the rules of some religion are doing all they can to keep a child from having an ideal situation.

 

[Starfish]

Whose goal?

The ideal situation is for a child to have two loving parents, regardless of sex. Those who believe that a child should be denied two loving parents because those parents don't observe the rules of some religion are doing all they can to keep a child from having an ideal situation.

Whose goal? The goal of anyone planning to have a child. I didn't saying anything about religion of the parents. (Maybe someone else did.) But I do believe every child deserves to be raised by a good mom and a good dad. This is the ideal and we should strive for it.

 

[Draka]

Whose goal? The goal of anyone planning to have a child. I didn't saying anything about religion of the parents. (Maybe someone else did.) But I do believe every child deserves to be raised by a good mom and a good dad. This is the ideal and we should strive for it.

Why is it the ideal? By whose definition is it ideal?

What about the young mother who loses her husband and moves on to develop a loving partnership with another woman? Thereby giving her children two moms? Isn't ideal that they have as much love and caring as they can get?

 

[Starfish]

Why is it the ideal? By whose definition is it ideal?

What about the young mother who loses her husband and moves on to develop a loving partnership with another woman? Thereby giving her children two moms? Isn't ideal that they have as much love and caring as they can get?

Since this is a religious forum, I'm going to take the religious side. This is not what God intended. From the beginning with our first parents, we are shown the pattern.
Children don't grow up in a cocoon. They'll see their friend's dad and wonder why they don't have one. Daughters can gain so much in their self-esteem and what to look for in a future husband by their relationship with their father. Boys especially need the modeling and influence of a man. We all know men and women are different. Children benefit most from a mix of both. And though Grandpa is great, they need that man raising them at home.
Of course the more love the better, but nothing substitutes for a mom and a dad.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Children don't grow up in a cocoon. They'll see their friend's dad and wonder why they don't have one. Daughters can gain so much in their self-esteem and what to look for in a future husband by their relationship with their father. Boys especially need the modeling and influence of a man. We all know men and women are different. Children benefit most from a mix of both. And though Grandpa is great, they need that man raising them at home.
Of course the more love the better, but nothing substitutes for a mom and a dad.

So, then, it's wrong for God to separate a child from his or her mom or dad?

 

[Starfish]

So, then, it's wrong for God to separate a child from his or her mom or dad?

I don't know what you mean. Through death? I think I already answered that.

 

[Smoke]

Since this is a religious forum, I'm going to take the religious side.

Please note that your personal point of view is not necessarily "the religious side." Although a great many religious people do share your prejudice, there are a great many who don't.

 

[Starfish]

Please note that your personal point of view is not necessarily "the religious side." Although a great many religious people do share your prejudice, there are a great many who don't.

I should have said the Biblical side. I stand corrected.

 

[Smoke]

I should have said the Biblical side. I stand corrected.

Oh, the Biblical side. That's different. We need to get back to those good old Biblical standards, under which a man is obligated to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law, and a woman may claim as her own any children her slaves might bear to her husband. Very enlightened stuff.

 

[Starfish]

Oh, the Biblical side. That's different. We need to get back to those good old Biblical standards, under which a man is obligated to impregnate his widowed sister-in-law, and a woman may claim as her own any children her slaves might bear to her husband. Very enlightened stuff.

Do you think the baby should be tossed out with the bathwater, as they say?