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Is God responsible for suffering?

nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
Pegg said:
Hi dyanaprajna,

It is the misuse of free will that has caused the problem. When God created us, he never made us to be independent of him. Mankind was to remain under Gods rulership and guidance and they were to live by his standards, but as we know from the story in Eden, the first man chose to disobey and this led to an independence from God.

From that point on, mankind became their own boss and lived by their own set of rules and standards. Those standards have not been beneficial. Early man introduced slavery, war, rape, domination of others....all the things that make life miserable. On top of that, we have not been under the protective care of God, so we have to deal with the naturual elements on our own too.


But the reason why so many cling to the hope of the Hebrew & Greek scriptures is because God promises to restore order and to bring creation back under his wing.
And when he does, we will experience life in the way he intended for us.... peacefully and without suffering, death, sickness and violence.
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Why is it taking so long?
 
dyanaprajna2011

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
Pegg said:
It is the misuse of free will that has caused the problem.
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First, science and philosophy has done a pretty good job in refuting the very idea of free will. Second, the very fact that God allowed it at all is the problem. He put in motion and allowed the means for us to do evil, and experience suffering. He could have very well, if the characteristics attributed to him are true, have made things different. He purposely chose not to; he purposely chose to allow us to suffer and feel pain, hurt, disappointment.

But the reason why so many cling to the hope of the Hebrew & Greek scriptures is because God promises to restore order and to bring creation back under his wing.
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But only to those who follow him in faith based on false premises.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
dyanaprajna2011 said:
First, science and philosophy has done a pretty good job in refuting the very idea of free will. Second, the very fact that God allowed it at all is the problem. He put in motion and allowed the means for us to do evil, and experience suffering. He could have very well, if the characteristics attributed to him are true, have made things different. He purposely chose not to; he purposely chose to allow us to suffer and feel pain, hurt, disappointment.
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he could have made us differently, true. He could have made us to live automatically, pre-programmed for a set of behaviors...he could have taken away our thinking and reasoning ability...he could have put individual talents and desires in us that we would automatically pursue without ever thinking 'why'

but he chose to create us with our own individual creativity and the ability to choose our own talents and goals. Of course he gave us a guiding hand in right conduct...he inbuilt within us a working conscience which informs us if an action we are about to take is right or wrong. The reason for that conscience is so that we will keep doing what is right.

If we did, then we would not suffer in the way we do.

dyanaprajna2011 said:
But only to those who follow him in faith based on false premises.
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I would say that the only way for mankind to live in peace and happiness without suffering is to remove all those who refuse to live in peace with their fellow man.

So once again, the ball is in our court....we either want peace or we dont.
 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
nazz said:
Well that nice for God but for us humans our suffering can seem to last an eternity
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we only live a few short years. By the time we become an adult, we are already going down hill physically and most of us will be dead within another 30 or 40 years.

in the scheme of things, we exist for such a short time that its amazing that we could even think of our life as significant.
 
Starsurfer93

Starsurfer93

Soul-Searcher
dyanaprajna2011 said:
My question is: is God responsible for human suffering?

This question came about from a conversation me and my father-in-law had. He's a fundamentalist Christian. Since me and my fiance only have one car, he takes me to work, and normally we just listen to classical music, and talk about everyday life. But sometimes, he'll bring up biblical topics, particularly on Wednesdays. Last Wednesday, apparently the sermon was on Job. As my father-in-law was talking about the sermon and what he thought of it, he said something that, while I was mostly trying to just nod along (they're in denial that I'm a Buddhist, and still think of me as a Christian), completely floored me, as I couldn't comprehend the logic that went into this statement.

So, he was discussing Job's suffering. He mentioned how Satan came to God, and asked that he be allowed to tempt him and make him suffer, in order to show God that Job would curse him if he didn't have such a good life as he had. God allowed Satan, on three different times, to perform three different torments. And then this is what my father-in-law said: "Some people ask why God makes people suffer? But in the story of Job, God didn't make Job suffer, God allowed Satan to make Job suffer, so God's innocence and goodness was left intact." I couldn't possibly comprehend the logic that went into this thought. It's the same as saying Hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust, because he wasn't the one doing all the experiments on the Jews. He then said that people ask "why do good people suffer?" He then made the statement that no one is good, so the question is invalid. But then he mentioned people that give millions to charities and to help those less fortunate, and admitted that he didn't have an easy answer.

So, is God responsible for people's suffering?
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This was always something I took issue with. If God has the power to eliminate all suffering, why not simply do away with it? Why allow evil to exist, especially since he is so vehemently against such things? If he is not the direct cause, would it not make him just as guilty to bear witness to such things when he has the power to intervene? Why "test" us with these trials and tribulations? These are questions that I feel are too easily shooed away.

For starters, God, according to the Bible has been the direct cause of people's suffering in various accounts. (Noah's flood, the plagues on Egypt, etc.) In regard to those stories there is no doubt that he is responsible for people's suffering, as he made the conscious choice to inflict torment upon them.

However, as for times when God's direct actions were not the cause, it really comes down to how one views the concept of responsibility. Let's say for example a man witnesses a mugging and does nothing to try and stop it or lend his aid. Would that man be partially responsible for the mugging through allowing it to happen? Really, this becomes a slippery slope. If you subscribe to my opinion on the matter, I would say that choosing to do nothing when you have the ability to do otherwise does make you responsible. Does it make you as bad as the guy holding the gun? That's debatable. But if one has the ability and the opportunity to change something and doesn't, they are responsible to some degree for the consequences of their inaction.

This applies to God too, in regard both to Job and worldly suffering on a whole. In the Story of Job, Satan, not God, is the direct cause of the suffering inflicted upon Job and his family. However, God had both the ability and the opportunity to intervene and put an end to what was happening. What's more, he had the opportunity to prevent Job's suffering all together by simply refusing Satan's offer. (If you think about it, the whole thing is the result of a rather sick bet) Yet he chose to do nothing. Therefore, even if he was not directly responsible, he was still at fault. We suffer every day, enduring hardships and pain. Some of this is the result of our own actions. Some of it is out of our control. But does it really matter? If there truly is a being with the power to put an end to it all, but chooses not to, it doesn't matter if we or outside forces are to blame. That being is responsible for his inaction.

At least, if you agree with my view on things...
 
Me Myself

Me Myself

Back to my username
God deliberately give permission to Satan in Job´s case. It wasn´t even an omission, it was the action of giving permission, without which Satan would have been powerless.

when you are omnipotent, action and inaction are the same, because all that happens happens in accordance to your will.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Me Myself said:
God deliberately give permission to Satan in Job´s case. It wasn´t even an omission, it was the action of giving permission, without which Satan would have been powerless.

when you are omnipotent, action and inaction are the same, because all that happens happens in accordance to your will.
Click to expand...

Satan did the things not god. God wanted Jobs life spared at least so in a way he was protected in the face of a hell on earth. Why did Satan want to pick on him anyway?
 
L

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
Koldo said:
Several IS many. :p
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:facepalm: Several is more than two but fewer than many. Check any dictionary ...
Several | Define Several at Dictionary.com

Koldo said:
Many greeks, mayans, aztecs, incans, indians....

You are missing the point. I will try to clarify.
If someone never heard about this god, then he/she can't worship him. This poses a problem. If God's objective is to be worshiped by humans, how could he let so many people not know about his existence which in turn prevents people from worshipping him? Doesn't it follow that if his main purpose for creating us is to worship him, then he would make himself known to everyone of us by some mean ( direct revelation, prophets, scriptures,... ) ?
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According to the Qur'an, God has sent messengers to every people.

"We did aforetime send messengers before thee: of them there are some whose story We have related to thee, and some whose story We have not related to thee..."(Al Qur'an 40:78)

"And those who disbelieved say, "Why has a sign not been sent down to him from his Lord?" You are only a warner, and for every people is a guide." (Al Qur'an 13:7)

"For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil"..." (Al Qur'an 16:36)

So God did send messengers to all the people, some we know about and some we don't. "But, in this connection, one should note two things so that there remains no misunderstanding. First, one and the same Prophet is enough for the lands to which his message may reach. It is not necessary that Prophets be sent to every separate habitation and to every separate community. Second, no new Prophet needs to be sent as long as the message and teaching and guidance given by a previous Prophet remains safe and intact. It is not necessary that a separate Prophet be sent for every race and every generation. " [1]

[1]http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/035-1.htm
 
L

loverOfTruth

Well-Known Member
dyanaprajna2011 said:
I lost faith in any god years ago, so I wouldn't necessarily be qualified to answer this question. But, if you're asking from my position now, as in, how would I answer this question if I believed that a god existed, but still held all my other views, I would have to say that god created humans as some sort of morbid game. If there is a god who created everything, then the only reason I can see why it did so is simply for entertainment purposes.
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It is quite disingenuous of you to talk about God's responsibility (in the case of sufferings/evil only) without first establishing the 'purpose of God's creation' , don't you think ? I don't think it is possible to have a constructive discussion of 'evil' and 'God's plan' without first establishing our purpose on earth and how it relates to hereafter (especially in the case of Islam because all those things are highly interconnected and interdependent). This seems to be as sadistic an attempt to justify(feel good about) non-belief at the expense of mocking the belief of (especially) the believers in Abrahamic faith.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
idav said:
We evolved free will cause its in the nature of things which is equivalent to being in the image of god.
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:yes:

And where two or more minds are gathered together there is conflict in the midst of them

;)
 
Prophet

Prophet

breaking the statutes of my local municipality
Is knowledge to blame for ignorance?
Is light to blame for dark?
Perhaps then it would be correct to blame God for suffering.
 
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