Is God responsible for suffering?

[dyanaprajna2011]

My question is: is God responsible for human suffering?

This question came about from a conversation me and my father-in-law had. He's a fundamentalist Christian. Since me and my fiance only have one car, he takes me to work, and normally we just listen to classical music, and talk about everyday life. But sometimes, he'll bring up biblical topics, particularly on Wednesdays. Last Wednesday, apparently the sermon was on Job. As my father-in-law was talking about the sermon and what he thought of it, he said something that, while I was mostly trying to just nod along (they're in denial that I'm a Buddhist, and still think of me as a Christian), completely floored me, as I couldn't comprehend the logic that went into this statement.

So, he was discussing Job's suffering. He mentioned how Satan came to God, and asked that he be allowed to tempt him and make him suffer, in order to show God that Job would curse him if he didn't have such a good life as he had. God allowed Satan, on three different times, to perform three different torments. And then this is what my father-in-law said: "Some people ask why God makes people suffer? But in the story of Job, God didn't make Job suffer, God allowed Satan to make Job suffer, so God's innocence and goodness was left intact." I couldn't possibly comprehend the logic that went into this thought. It's the same as saying Hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust, because he wasn't the one doing all the experiments on the Jews. He then said that people ask "why do good people suffer?" He then made the statement that no one is good, so the question is invalid. But then he mentioned people that give millions to charities and to help those less fortunate, and admitted that he didn't have an easy answer.

So, is God responsible for people's suffering?

 

[Levite]

My question is: is God responsible for human suffering?

This question came about from a conversation me and my father-in-law had. He's a fundamentalist Christian. Since me and my fiance only have one car, he takes me to work, and normally we just listen to classical music, and talk about everyday life. But sometimes, he'll bring up biblical topics, particularly on Wednesdays. Last Wednesday, apparently the sermon was on Job. As my father-in-law was talking about the sermon and what he thought of it, he said something that, while I was mostly trying to just nod along (they're in denial that I'm a Buddhist, and still think of me as a Christian), completely floored me, as I couldn't comprehend the logic that went into this statement.

So, he was discussing Job's suffering. He mentioned how Satan came to God, and asked that he be allowed to tempt him and make him suffer, in order to show God that Job would curse him if he didn't have such a good life as he had. God allowed Satan, on three different times, to perform three different torments. And then this is what my father-in-law said: "Some people ask why God makes people suffer? But in the story of Job, God didn't make Job suffer, God allowed Satan to make Job suffer, so God's innocence and goodness was left intact." I couldn't possibly comprehend the logic that went into this thought. It's the same as saying Hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust, because he wasn't the one doing all the experiments on the Jews. He then said that people ask "why do good people suffer?" He then made the statement that no one is good, so the question is invalid. But then he mentioned people that give millions to charities and to help those less fortunate, and admitted that he didn't have an easy answer.

So, is God responsible for people's suffering?

I think God is indirectly responsible for suffering. I don't think God does anything that is directly intended primarily or solely to cause anyone to suffer. But God did give human beings free will, knowing that many would abuse that free will and cause others to suffer. And God did create the universe using entropy, chaos, and randomness, knowing that death, the processes of the natural world, and the competitiveness of evolution and natural selection would cause people sorrow, grief, physical dangers, injuries, and premature death.

I believe God is the sole creator of all things, therefore it is not possible for Him not to be at least indirectly and ultimately responsible for everything. But I don't think that he causes suffering with specific or malicious intent. In any case, in Judaism we have no devil, and we understand that all things, good and evil alike, have their ultimate source in God (as stated in Isaiah 45:7). We have generally not attempted to portray God as truly omnibenevolent, though we do not hold Him to be malicious, either. Our Rabbinic theologians have tended to portray God as basically good, but willing to make some very hard choices that result in people suffering, in service to larger goals, such as the importance of human free will, or the universe existing as it has been created to exist.

As for Job, I tend to side with those Jewish authorities who say that Job was entirely metaphorical, an extended theological allegory that never really happened in history. I think the theology of Job was an important step forward in the development of Jewish theology from Biblical to Rabbinic, but it is not satisfactory as an end in and of itself.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Why does God not straighten out the world?
If he really is the Controller, the Highest, Lord of All Beings,
Why is the whole world in such a mess?
Why did he not make the world happy?
If he really is the Controller, the Highest, Lord of All Beings,
Why is there so much deceit, lies, pride and unrighteousness?
If he really is the Controller, the Highest, Lord of All Beings,
Then he must be unrighteous and cruel,
Because it was he who made everything.
-- Bhuridatta Jataka, No. 453

 

[Me Myself]

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then he is responsible of absolutely everything, good and bad without exception.

 

[Jainarayan]

My question is: is God responsible for human suffering?

:no: I do not believe that. I come from the position that Sri Krishna says He is partial to no one. I believe that He will grant special graces or blessings, but never punishments. Our karma does that. While I believe that God is the final arbitor of karma, He gives exactly what the jiva's deeds require, impartially. It serves Him no purpose to do otherwise.

"Some people ask why God makes people suffer? But in the story of Job, God didn't make Job suffer, God allowed Satan to make Job suffer, so God's innocence and goodness was left intact." I couldn't possibly comprehend the logic that went into this thought.

Because there is no logic. The whole story implicates God in a sadistic experiment and game.

So, is God responsible for people's suffering?

Not as I believe in God.

 

[ChristineES]

Humans are mostly responsible for suffering. Sure, God could stop it all from happening, but why would He? We live in this world- the world is changing just as we are- and unfortunately that causes natural disasters. Things like starvation, war, etc are human caused suffering.

 

[dawny0826]

My question is: is God responsible for human suffering?

This question came about from a conversation me and my father-in-law had. He's a fundamentalist Christian. Since me and my fiance only have one car, he takes me to work, and normally we just listen to classical music, and talk about everyday life. But sometimes, he'll bring up biblical topics, particularly on Wednesdays. Last Wednesday, apparently the sermon was on Job. As my father-in-law was talking about the sermon and what he thought of it, he said something that, while I was mostly trying to just nod along (they're in denial that I'm a Buddhist, and still think of me as a Christian), completely floored me, as I couldn't comprehend the logic that went into this statement.

So, he was discussing Job's suffering. He mentioned how Satan came to God, and asked that he be allowed to tempt him and make him suffer, in order to show God that Job would curse him if he didn't have such a good life as he had. God allowed Satan, on three different times, to perform three different torments. And then this is what my father-in-law said: "Some people ask why God makes people suffer? But in the story of Job, God didn't make Job suffer, God allowed Satan to make Job suffer, so God's innocence and goodness was left intact." I couldn't possibly comprehend the logic that went into this thought. It's the same as saying Hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust, because he wasn't the one doing all the experiments on the Jews. He then said that people ask "why do good people suffer?" He then made the statement that no one is good, so the question is invalid. But then he mentioned people that give millions to charities and to help those less fortunate, and admitted that he didn't have an easy answer.

So, is God responsible for people's suffering?

The bible depicts God as being multi-faceted in nature. I believe that God is only responsible for suffering in the regard that he may allow suffering as part of a greater plan or as an important part of an indiviudal's growth.

 

[johnsweeting]

My question is: is God responsible for human suffering?

This question came about from a conversation me and my father-in-law had. He's a fundamentalist Christian. Since me and my fiance only have one car, he takes me to work, and normally we just listen to classical music, and talk about everyday life. But sometimes, he'll bring up biblical topics, particularly on Wednesdays. Last Wednesday, apparently the sermon was on Job. As my father-in-law was talking about the sermon and what he thought of it, he said something that, while I was mostly trying to just nod along (they're in denial that I'm a Buddhist, and still think of me as a Christian), completely floored me, as I couldn't comprehend the logic that went into this statement.

So, he was discussing Job's suffering. He mentioned how Satan came to God, and asked that he be allowed to tempt him and make him suffer, in order to show God that Job would curse him if he didn't have such a good life as he had. God allowed Satan, on three different times, to perform three different torments. And then this is what my father-in-law said: "Some people ask why God makes people suffer? But in the story of Job, God didn't make Job suffer, God allowed Satan to make Job suffer, so God's innocence and goodness was left intact." I couldn't possibly comprehend the logic that went into this thought. It's the same as saying Hitler wasn't responsible for the Holocaust, because he wasn't the one doing all the experiments on the Jews. He then said that people ask "why do good people suffer?" He then made the statement that no one is good, so the question is invalid. But then he mentioned people that give millions to charities and to help those less fortunate, and admitted that he didn't have an easy answer.

So, is God responsible for people's suffering?

He doesn't exist (it's a fairy tail)..so the answer is simply...no....problem solved....

By the way...According to the latest study there are a little more than 2,500 different God figures on this planet so which one do you mean...You have 2,500 to choose from and they say different things....

 

[Sunstone]

I'd like to address the notion that no one is good, which was mentioned in passing in the OP. It seems to me that, in order to claim no one is good, one must apply a standard in which even the slightest evil condemns the whole person. An instance would be labeling someone a thief because they once stole a ten cent piece of gum. On the face of it, that's an absurd standard. Moreover, if you permit such a standard, what keeps you from flipping it around and calling someone good simply because they have done one decent thing in their whole lives? Lastly, the position urges the question of whether people are good or bad (or evil), rather than whether it's merely their actions that are good or bad (or evil)?

To relate this to the problem of whether someone is responsible for their suffering, imagine a person who has only done one bad thing in their lives (perhaps stolen a piece of gum) --- but who has suffered greatly due to, say, a disease. Is their suffering fair and just compared to the bad they have done?

 

[Pegg]

i think the more important question is 'why does God allow it'

I dont believe for one second that he is the cause of our suffering, but I do believe he allows it.
There must be a very good reason why he would allow it because he hates to see people suffering, ie:
Psalms 72:12 For he will deliver the poor one crying for help,
Also the afflicted one and whoever has no helper.
13 He will feel sorry for the lowly one and the poor one,
And the souls of the poor ones he will save.
14 From oppression and from violence he will redeem their soul,
And their blood will be precious in his eyes

We know why suffering happens...people make each other suffer when they mistreat one another...or natural disasters strike or disease... So then the question of 'why he allows it' is of utmost importance.

 

[Sleeppy]

God is only responsible for suffering in the regard that he may allow suffering as part of a greater plan or as an important part of an individual's growth.

Agree.

It's so much more to it, but.. I'm tired.. Nap time!

All-knowing, all-powerful, Creator (who created of Himself/ in His likeness). That's about all you need to know to form the right equation.

 

[Quintessence]

Everything is responsible for human suffering.

 

[Sir Doom]

God is responsible for human suffering in the same way I am responsible for bacterial suffering.

 

[BruceDLimber]

I would say God is responsible for suffering, but only in part!

As I see it, there are three main reasons for suffering:

- Some suffering is indeed God testing us, as various scriptures state:

"God verily will sift them and testy them."

and

"Do men think when they say, 'We believe,' they will be let alone and not put to proof?"

- Some is simply random events, such as earthquakes and tornadoes.

- But MUCH suffering is in fact OUR OWN DOING due to the poor decisions we make and the bad actions we ourselves perform!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

But God did give human beings free will, knowing that many would abuse that free will and cause others to suffer. And God did create the universe using entropy, chaos, and randomness, knowing that death, the processes of the natural world, and the competitiveness of evolution and natural selection would cause people sorrow, grief, physical dangers, injuries, and premature death.

Humans are mostly responsible for suffering.

We know why suffering happens...people make each other suffer when they mistreat one another...

But MUCH suffering is in fact OUR OWN DOING due to the poor decisions we make and the bad actions we ourselves perform!

If you haven't noticed what I've tried to point out by now, I'll spell it out. It seem the overriding opinion of those in the Abrahamic religions is that humans are the primary cause of suffering. But this poses a few problems:

1. It shows that God is either unconcerned with our suffering, doesn't care, or, delights in our suffering.
2. It gives humans more power than God, as humans have the power to cause suffering, and God is either unwilling or unable to stop it.
3. This, to me, is the primary point: why did God not make things where suffering was not a part of his plan? Could he not have done this? If he is indeed all-powerful and all-loving, he could have easily devised a plan where humans could live happy and peaceful.

Placing the blame on humans, to me, is sidestepping the issue: God, ultimately, is the root of suffering. He allows it, he gave humans the propensity for it, he has the power to stop it but doesn't, and the claims that he loves all beings is found wanting.

 

[Twig pentagram]

If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then he is responsible of absolutely everything, good and bad without exception.

This sums it up for me too.

 

[idav]

So, is God responsible for people's suffering?

Suffering is the result of being imperfect machines that tend to break down and reach mental and physical limitations. Our limitations send us pain signals which really ends up being result of the mind. So for the most part we cause the most suffering to ourselves and others.

Still I can't really say that pain receptors is really a flaw or the result of imperfection cause then we wouldn't feel pleasure either. So if god is responsible for pain he's also responsible for pleasure so I'm kinda torn on the subject. Feeling something rather than nothing may be preferable even among the feelings we'd prefer not to have.

 

[1137]

"I make the light and create darkness, form well-being and create calamity. I, the LORD, do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7

 

[nazz]

IMO, yes and no

I don't believe there is some invisible man in the sky who decides who suffers and who doesn't.

But as God is ultimately the source of all that exists, and suffering exists, then in that sense God is responsible for the existence of suffering.

 

[nazz]

If you haven't noticed what I've tried to point out by now, I'll spell it out. It seem the overriding opinion of those in the Abrahamic religions is that humans are the primary cause of suffering. But this poses a few problems:

1. It shows that God is either unconcerned with our suffering, doesn't care, or, delights in our suffering.
2. It gives humans more power than God, as humans have the power to cause suffering, and God is either unwilling or unable to stop it.
3. This, to me, is the primary point: why did God not make things where suffering was not a part of his plan? Could he not have done this? If he is indeed all-powerful and all-loving, he could have easily devised a plan where humans could live happy and peaceful.

Placing the blame on humans, to me, is sidestepping the issue: God, ultimately, is the root of suffering. He allows it, he gave humans the propensity for it, he has the power to stop it but doesn't, and the claims that he loves all beings is found wanting.

My answer to that is that God had no choice in the matter. God simply expressed himself and the rest is history. That expression included the development of self willed beings who could impose suffering on themselves and others. Note that I believe in divine emanation and not traditional creation. So there was no conscious decision making going on.

I don't believe in an omnipotent deity so I don't think God can just snap his fingers and make it all go away.