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Is Hedonism Good, Bad, or a Combo of Both?

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
What do you think? Discuss:

Definitions:

he·don·ism (hdn-zm)
n.
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Both one and two depend on how you pursue them and what gives you pleasure. 3 as gjalla said, is accurate.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not one to say anything is "good" or "bad" in some grand, universal sense. That's a value judgement, and it depends on point of view.

That said, Paganism in general, contemporary or otherwise, is hedonistic. That is to say, it doesn't body-shame as some other religious traditions do, and many rituals and celebrations showcase the physical realm, sensation, and pleasure. For example, one of the ways I honor Rain Spirits is to revel in the physical sensation of being rained on. Much of honoring the seasons is about appreciating the sensual beauty of the changing cycles: the smell of crisp autumn leaves, the delicate geometry of snow crystals, and so forth.
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
What do you think? Discuss:

Definitions:

he·don·ism (hdn-zm)
n.
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.
1. Pursuit is not bad, we all do that sometimes. Devotion is bad, however.
2. Depends on what you define as "pleasant". Something good doesnt have to feel good. Like if you take blood samples because you work with something that might be dangerous, but you also know the risks are so low you dont worry about it. And what feels good can be harmful as well.
3. I guess its true. But its not the only thing that motivates us :p.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
What do you think? Discuss:

Definitions:

he·don·ism (hdn-zm)
n.
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

It's totally fine as long as it's done responsibly and doesn't victimize others.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
What do you think? Discuss:

Definitions:

he·don·ism (hdn-zm)
n.
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.
Living only for hedonism, can't be good. Having said that, it's really not interesting to me how people choose to live their life as long as they don't let it excessively effect me or as long as it means not exploiting others by leverage of their power. Too many politicians abuse their position to satisfy themselves and many people are being exploited on the way. Italy and France are only two of the seemingly civilized countries which experience scandals of severe sexual exploitation because of the hedonism of their leaders.

My philosophy is different from hedonism in that I believe in reward after effort, and free meals don't taste as good to me as something I've worked hard for.
I love a good physical challenge and earning my meals. For example by definition #2 of your post a hedonist would avoid physical and mental challenges that demand effort or pain. Myself, on the other hand, I enjoy trekking canyons for days at a time and sleeping on a rock under the night sky usually not even using my sleeping bag. I can tell you that when I'm back home from such trips I know how to treat myself to a decadent dinner, or an oily bath with a chilled bottle of rose next to me. And I'm also in the opinion that no matter how many sexual positions you think you may have tried, there is always something new you can learn. So while I'm a stranger to being a prude or to puritanism, people who outwardly stress their hedonism seem cheap and unattractive to me in general.
I think that for the most part, real hedonists, do not really enjoy erotic pleasures, luxurious dinners, or other things as balanced individuals do. I think that people who know when and where to have fun without making it their prime motivator to seek pleasure are more in the moment.
It's sort of like a user of hard drugs, who needs a larger dose because the drugs don't effect them as they used to.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think any " good or bad" is best determined on the effects and result.

Too much of a good thing........... Along those lines.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

I think this is particularly correct. Although, i understand it in a far broader manner than most people do.

Let's take this example from Caladan:

My philosophy is different from hedonism in that I believe in reward after effort, and free meals don't taste as good to me as something I've worked hard for.

He experiences more pleasure on meals that he worked for. So it can be said he is effectively seeking higher pleasure.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
What do you think? Discuss:

Definitions:

he·don·ism (hdn-zm)
n.
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

It's only good, to a hedonist.
It's only bad, to someone who'is not one.
 

Alex_G

Enlightner of the Senses
What do you think? Discuss:

Definitions:

he·don·ism (hdn-zm)
n.
1. Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
2. Philosophy The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
3. Psychology The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

Pleasure is a core aspect of life, unavoidable without which you would probably be hard pressed to identify with anything remotely resembling human. It's place in our life can to a large degree be explained in an evolutionary context, motivating and inhibiting behaviour. It's a particular interface we have with our environment, carving out a certain relationship we have with it.

Saying that, I think pleasure as a motivational model for human behaviour is pretty limited. If you think about most of you life and the choices, rarely are they responding to forces of pleasure and pain. I think Nietzche's 'will to power' contends as a model of human motivation quite well to the seemingly more widespread or at least day to day belief that it's all about pleasure and pain.

Of course pleasure is not well defined, and you can have different qualitative forms of pleasure, from basic animalistic gratifications to more sophisticated intellectual pleasures. The merits of different forms may have to be considered somewhat separately.

As with most things, moderation and responsibility lie at the heart of the question of good. Harm to others will be morally wrong, whilst abuses that lead to self harm will be a danger rather than a particularly moral consideration.
In a somewhat stoic sense, the animalistic pleasure aspect of you can be considered somewhat removed from the rational you. It's indulgence can be a a form of surrender of freedom, yielding to the sovereign master of pleasure and pain, which if it defines all that you are or hope to be makes you a prisoner of your impulses, which could be not only a danger to others but a tragedy from the perspective of a potentially rich and free life. One needs only take a look at the heroin addict to appreciate this dark side of pleasure.

On the other side of things I think society today, especially in the west is much too much in the business of constraining the freedom to feel honestly. Arbitrary rules and social customs painfully manipulate our life into one that does not reflect our true nature and we deny ourselves pleasures everyday, often for no good reason. In a large part I have a lot of blame directed at the abrahamic religions for fostering an environment of guilt and subservience that permeates all the culture affecting even those who don't identify as religious.
So as too much can be damaging so too can too little, or rather the repression of ones authentic emotional nature.

Pleasure in its most intense form can be referred to as ecstasy, in which one looses oneself in the experience. Interestingly this out of body experience can be considered a form of death, and through which you can philosophise that through having death does one create meaning in life. So I think the presence of pleasure and pain in our life runs quite deep in our soul, and I often sigh* at various dogmas and laws that seem to label actions as immoral such as sexual activities and drug use for the seemingly suspicious reason that through their practice you can 'loose yourself' and experience this form of death which liberates you. A sense that these rules and perspectives are there to clip the wings of people, and insidiously promote a subdued, tame and servile people.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Everyone is completely selfish and everyone is seeking pleasure of some sorts. Even the pleasure we get from religion is from brain processes. But if we are talking like LaVey's idea of hedonism then I would say it's only good in moderation. Basic pleasures like sex and such are only part of a happy, healthy life.
 
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