-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
is human nature sinful?
- Thread starter osgart
- Start date
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
I think it does more harm to society to make the claim that human nature is sinful and the only cure is through religious repentance.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
1. Yes
2. Righteous? As in holy, prideful, saintly?
3. No. Just to yourself if you want to address whats causing your problems to find a solution
4. Human nature? I consider it good but its difficult to keep that mindset when we are bambarded with choices that may conflict with what we value and our mental and physical health.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Heathenry defines "sin" as actions that break the peace of a community or society. So no, I think our natures are in fact the exact opposite of sinful.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I think that's true of a lot of people.
I find the concept of 'sin' to be often misleading as in this question. Human nature can be full of errors or greatness or both.
Yes capable of goodness and righteousness.
We don't need an external authority.
Human nature is difficult and complex.
Augustus
…
Human nature is inherently flawed. Whether you put this down to a snake in a garden or our evolutionary heritage makes little difference.
A great mistake many people make is assuming that we can transcend our nature. This can take the form of melioristic 'progress' as promoted by Humanists, or radical utopianisms like Communism.
Despite the fact that I wouldn't use a religious term like 'sinful', and don't believe in a myth of redemption, I have to broadly agree with the idea.
People often mistake this for pessimism, but it's really just the absence of irrational optimism. Creating a better world requires that we see things as they are, not as we would like them to be.
Mister Silver
Faith's Nightmare
In what way is human nature flawed?
I'm thinking Saint Augustine on Human Nature, but I hope you prove me wrong.
Augustus
…
Collectively: violent, tribal, prejudiced, irrational, selfish, hypocritical, etc.
More the mountains of evidence produced over thousands of years of human history.
Modern scientific research puts a little cherry on top too.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
You just need to be realistic about it.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
idealism can really take the air out of your balloon, expecting too much.
In my personal opinion...
1. Human nature requires self moderation
2. We are capable of goodness and righteousness, and the superlatively most righteous in every age is the mediator between God and man
3. We don't need an authority to repent to for the purpose of self moderation, however some people do find prayer and or meditation useful in perfecting the art of self moderation.
4. Human nature can be difficult if left unmoderated
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
"Sin" and "righteousness" are arbitrarily defined, and differ from one religion to the next.
There is nothing wrong with human nature as long as you conduct yourself in a rational, compassionate manner. In that sense we are capable of "goodness".
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
Sin is the transgression of the law.
We do not naturally keep the Ten Commandments.
We are essentially little more than animals, and as becoming perfect requires our involvement, we were born into a state from which to repent toward perfection -or toward God/godliness.
God is able to be perfect/maintain a perfect system/add to it and remain perfect.
He then created billions who are not yet able to do so -who will learn to do so -under his authority, because he exists and is the ultimate authority. His government is necessary for order as "the kingdom of God" increases forever. Otherwise there would be constant conflict and subdivision as we now have.
I suppose it depends on how one defines "sinful" or "righteous." I believe that humans have adapted and evolved to what is around them in the only way that "nature" provides. Perhaps qualities such as love, compassion, charity/generosity, empathy - they may come from being social animals. We've had to survive in packs, which entails a cooperative and caring attitude related to "goodness," I would think. But then we might also have to hunt and kill to survive, as well as have a heightened awareness of predators or even other humans that might want to kill us.
Somehow, it seems clear that it was also a part of our nature to develop our language and thought processes to the point where we could learn compromise and negotiation. I think that we're certainly capable of goodness, but that may have been learned through trial and error, at least in terms of how our perception of morals and right/wrong have developed over the eons.
For whatever reason, humans invented these concepts, because nature caused our brains to evolve to the point where we're pretty smart, clever, and imaginative - far more so than the other species of the Earth. That's what makes our "nature" so complex.
I suppose there might have been a time when some sort of imaginary "authority" might have been necessary, perhaps just to keep everyone honest to some degree. Perhaps in the early days of the social contract, it may have been something like the "honor system," but if that wasn't working, then something stronger might have been needed.
Sure, we can do some good things.
I don't believe in righteousness.
I don't believe in authority.
Only if you want it to be other than it actually is.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
human nature is not essentially sinful.
If this were the case we would have to sin.
We always have the choice to sin or not.
If this were the case we would have to sin.
We always have the choice to sin or not.
Yes, we are all capable of goodness....its a choice though. Many choose not to do good for their own reasons?
I personally get a great deal of pleasure out of helping others.
There are righteous men in the Bible. They were not perfect, but had the right heart motive generally. King David springs to mind. He made many mistakes and paid dearly for them, but God said that his heart was good because he always sincerely repented.
God said to Solomon...."And you, if you walk before me as your father David walked, with integrity of heart and with uprightness, by doing everything I have commanded you, and you obey my regulations and my judgments, 5 then I will establish the throne of your kingdom over Israel forever, just as I promised your father David."
The only authority we need to repent to is God. However if a serious sin has been committed, then the shepherds in the congregation need to be consulted and their help sought to make sure that no reproach is brought on God for something we have done. Genuine repentance needs to be demonstrated. (Hebrews 13:17) They are accountable to God for the care of the flock.
Fallen human nature is hard to deal with at times. We are naturally inclined to go the wrong way due to inherited sin.
As Paul said...."For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate.....
I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law." (Romans 7:4-25)
Jesus is the one who rescues us from the body undergoing this struggle. How? By providing the means to forgive repentant sinners. God's spirit can help us fight the sinful inclinations that cause us to offend him. But if we succumb, all is not lost. God understands that our condition is not our fault, but at the same time, it cannot be used as an excuse to do wrong. We have choices and even if they are difficult, we CAN make them. The rewards will be well worth the effort.
Last edited:
Looncall
Well-Known Member
The notion of inherent, especially original, sin is one of the vilest parts of the Great Scam.
It is used by pastors, priests, rabbis, imams, all that scoundrel rabble, to keep their victims in a state of perpetual morbid guilt, and so keep their pews and collection plates full.