Is Humanity Essentially Tragic?

[Sunstone]

Is humanity essentially tragic? I do not mean tragic in the modern sense of nearly any unexpected misfortune that befalls us, such as a death in the family or a car accident. Rather, I mean tragic in the ancient Greek sense.

There seems to be no precise consensus among scholars about the Greek sense of tragedy, but broadly speaking, the notion appears to be that we humans have an inherent, inescapable flaw in our nature that inclines us to bring about our own downfalls. The Greeks focused on individuals as tragic characters, but what about humanity as a whole?

To put that in modern terms, consider, say, nuclear weapons: We seem to be smart enough to invent them, but are we wise enough to never use them? A thermonuclear war that devastated or destroyed humanity would be tragic -- not merely in the modern sense of being a terrible misfortune -- but also tragic in the Greek sense of being something we brought upon ourselves by, basically, not being wise enough to avoid it.

So, is tragedy an essential aspect of what it means to be human?

 

[Valjean]

Yes

 

[Deathbydefault]

Is humanity essentially tragic? I do not mean tragic in the modern sense of nearly any unexpected misfortune that befalls us, such as a death in the family or a car accident. Rather, I mean tragic in the ancient Greek sense.

There seems to be no precise consensus among scholars about the Greek sense of tragedy, but broadly speaking, the notion appears to be that we humans have an inherent, inescapable flaw in our nature that inclines us to bring about our own downfalls. The Greeks focused on individuals as tragic characters, but what about humanity as a whole?

To put that in modern terms, consider, say, nuclear weapons: We seem to be smart enough to invent them, but are we wise enough to never use them? A thermonuclear war that devastated or destroyed humanity would be tragic -- not merely in the modern sense of being a terrible misfortune -- but also tragic in the Greek sense of being something we brought upon ourselves by, basically, not being wise enough to avoid it.

So, is tragedy an essential aspect of what it means to be human?

I would say so, yes.
There's a decent chance that humans will destroy themselves.
Those in power who want to rule the world and become a god-like figure.
The religious who want some form of rapture to come and go out of their way to try and cause it.
Immature leaders that hold the ability to make a small country a radioactive crater.

Hell, the chances of us not destroying ourselves seems smaller and smaller the more things you can list.

 

[Skwim]

With all the suffering through the ages and right up to the present, yes indeed humanity is essentially tragic. Those who've lived decent lives with modicum of comfort pales in comparison to all those who've lived under adversity, distress, and outright misery. In comparison to other animals, human suffering is all the more tragic because we're capable of understanding our plight as no other animal can. The suffering sees those who do not suffer, but can't do anything about their plight. Because this thread is in a religious forum I'm going to further observe that no god who would permit centuries of such on going, senseless suffering could be called good or worthy of approval, much less praise and adoration.

 

[Revoltingest]

We're doomed to die a lonely cold death as entropy of the universe reaches it's maximum.
And even this is only if we move away from Earth before the Sun consumes it in its
inexorable march towards becoming a red giant...provided we don't destroy ourselves 1st.
But how we view this a state of mind.
So no....humanity is not tragic.

 

[LuisDantas]

the notion appears to be that we humans have an inherent, inescapable flaw in our nature that inclines us to bring about our own downfalls. The Greeks focused on individuals as tragic characters, but what about humanity as a whole?

Yes. We have strong instincts that lead us towards seeking to breed, spread and increase our influence over others, even while we neglect and even actively destroy the social and ecological environments needed to sustain those goals.

In a very real sense, humanity's most impressive feat is its persistence in devouring its own figurative entrails time and again, without ever learning from the self-inflicted grief.

So, is tragedy an essential aspect of what it means to be human?

Apparently so. For instance, World War I was such a remarkable tragedy that you would expect no similar conflict to erupt within the lifetime of most survivors. Yet a much greater one did.

 

[rusra02]

Certainly the world has been in a tragic state for a long time. I believe that left to their own devices, mankind would surely destroy themselves. However, I find compelling this statement: "the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now." (Romans 8:20-22) My view is that man's rebellion against God has resulted in all the futile violence and suffering that continues today, but those who accept God's direction have a sure hope of seeing the end to man's tragic misrule and enjoying the promised freedom as children of God.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

So, is tragedy an essential aspect of what it means to be human?

We're not as intelligent as we like to think we are.

 

[Sunstone]

My view is that man's rebellion against God has resulted in all the futile violence and suffering that continues today, but those who accept God's direction have a sure hope of seeing the end to man's tragic misrule and enjoying the promised freedom as children of God.

Yes, Christianity is a non-tragic view of the world.

 

[Augustus]

Yes, Christianity is a non-tragic view of the world.

So are secular ideologies like humanism which adopted a teleological view of history from the Judaism and Christianity it evolved from.

I think history clearly demonstrates our flaws, and the idea we can overcome these is pie in the sky idealism.

This is why you find many 'rationalists' who are staunch anti-theists and blame religion as the cause of all evil; the idea being that if we can escape from its nefarious grasp then we can realise our true nature which is ultimately benign. "If only we could get rid of..." things would be wonderful".

This is nothing more than a secular faith though, no more reasonable than believing in the redemption of man's sins through the resurrection of Christ.

I'm with the Greeks on this one. They understood our fundamental flaws and the capricious nature of the world which makes humanity essentially tragic.

 

[Ouroboros]

So, is tragedy an essential aspect of what it means to be human?

Yes. Even perhaps tragicomical. If we weren't such a sad bunch, we would be almost funny.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Considering we're still exploiting and killing each other, even after doing it for thousands of years, I would say that we are inherently tragic. We are great visionaries who lack foresight. We have boundless intelligence but little wisdom.

 

[Sunstone]

Yes. Even perhaps tragicomical. If we weren't such a sad bunch, we would be almost funny.

I suppose that if you could detach yourself to the extent that you retain your empathy, but not your sympathy, you'd find us something like inherently hilarious.

 

[Sunstone]

This is why you find many 'rationalists' who are staunch anti-theists and blame religion as the cause of all evil; the idea being that if we can escape from its nefarious grasp then we can realise our true nature which is ultimately benign. "If only we could get rid of..." things would be wonderful".

This is nothing more than a secular faith though, no more reasonable than believing in the redemption of man's sins through the resurrection of Christ.

I would agree with you to some substantial extent, although I think that if certain religions (e.g. Islam) were replaced with other religions (e.g. Tibetan Buddhism) there would be some practical measure of improvement, such as less religiously inspired violence, without -- however -- changing the fundamental fact that we'll find some way to screw ourselves anyway.

 

[Sunstone]

So are secular ideologies like humanism which adopted a teleological view of history from the Judaism and Christianity it evolved from.

I don't hold to a teleological view of history in the sense that I do not suppose that humanity is necessarily or inevitably progressing towards some golden age, paradise, or even a better world than the one we have. For all I know, we could be headed towards a thousand year world dictatorship followed by our extinction. But I do think adopting humanist values makes sense in the short term. That is, until we blow ourselves off the face of the earth.

 

[Valjean]

Our evolutionary biology threatens us with a planetary Easter Island scenario.

 

[Augustus]

I would agree with you to some substantial extent, although I think that if certain religions (e.g. Islam) were replaced with other religions (e.g. Tibetan Buddhism) there would be some practical measure of improvement, such as less religiously inspired violence, without -- however -- changing the fundamental fact that we'll find some way to screw ourselves anyway.

Possibly it would, but my guess is that it would make much less of an impact than many people believe because as you noted 'we will find a way'.

Radical Islam fulfils a need, where it not there something else would emerge sooner or later as nature abhors a vacuum.

But I do think adopting humanist values makes sense in the short term.

Nothing wrong with humanist values, the ideology though is flawed as it contains an implicit teleology related to an 'end of history' type narrative with a universal humanity marching towards a common end.

What we can be pretty sure about though is 1) we will never agree on the correct way to live, there will always be counter narratives to any dominant cultures 2) we'll find a way to justify being violent.

I agree with the values, just not the ideology.

 

[mindlight]

So, is tragedy an essential aspect of what it means to be human?

According to my religion at least 2 people never died (Elijah and Enoch), 2 seem to have been raised from the dead (Moses and Jesus) and the expectation is that everyone will be raised. So no humanity is not essentially tragic and we do not need to hold to expectations about reality that are tinged with tragedy.

 

[Jiddanand]

Yes. Essentially.

 

[ThirtyThree]

This should be a poll.

However, I believe humanity is as tragic as it makes itself. Currently, the glass is half empty and we are destroying ourselves. The world is overpopulated, people are starvingand war looms over head like an angry storm cloud, and so on.

Will something be done to change it? Yes, it is called war. It has always been and as will most likely always be. It is responsible for the majority of human advancement today, also.