Is ISIS a disaster for all muslims?

[TashaN]

If you think everything in your religion is credible including history, and has no fault, does that breed fanaticism and fundamentalism?

What do you mean by my religion? do you mean everything including the Quran, hadith, Muslims actions, and every single thing about Islam and Muslims or you mean something more specific?

 

[TashaN]

The problem is that you only get one-biased collection of sources, and Muslims get to write and rewrite history how ever they want to.

They can embellish his life story. These embellishments can be clearly seen in the various traditions of Muhammad's life in the hadiths.
Or leave out parts his closest disciples or biographers or historians don't want people to know.
Or make whatever excuses for his actions.

What we have is not objective history, but distortions that you would expect to get, then you conflated legends or traditions, and propaganda.

I'm sure you have heard of the saying that go something like this - "The victor get to shape and rewrite history."

How are Muslim historians/biographers of the 7th and 8th centuries any different to the 20th century historians from the Cold War Soviet Union or United States, or communism China?

They each get to write all sorts of propaganda pieces of $#i@, on what they pass as history.

But even with biased biographies and history of Muhammad, one can pierce through the propaganda to get some sorts of semblance of fact. It is possible, if not impossible, to shift through and sort out the lies, distortion and apologetic excuses from the truth.

Why do you assume they are going to lie and distort rather than tell the truth? because Muslims are inherently evil? why not assume they are telling the truth until found otherwise?

 

[outhouse]

What do you mean by my religion? do you mean everything including the Quran, hadith, Muslims actions, and every single thing about Islam and Muslims or you mean something more specific?

Just the books, for this exercise, the Koran will do.

 

[outhouse]

Why do you assume they are going to lie and distort rather than tell the truth?

Because they make claims about the other prophets and the reliability of other religious text. Which is factually unsubstantiated.

because Muslims are inherently evil?

None of my family are evil.

why not assume they are telling the truth until found otherwise?

This is done by denial of the plagiarism to text all cultures of that time knew.

 

[psychoslice]

I think Muslims themselves must do something about it, if I was a Christian and there was idiots ruining it for everyone, I would want to get rid of them as soon as possible.

 

[TashaN]

I think Muslims themselves must do something about it, if I was a Christian and there was idiots ruining it for everyone, I would want to get rid of them as soon as possible.

Do what exactly?

 

[TashaN]

Just the books, for this exercise, the Koran will do.

What's wrong with the Quran?

 

[TashaN]

Because they make claims about the other prophets and the reliability of other religious text. Which is factually unsubstantiated.

None of my family are evil.

This is done by denial of the plagiarism to text all cultures of that time knew.

Aha, and since you are an *expert*, you found out the Quran was plagiarized! Good for you. I think it's better to take this nonsense to the other thread which is already discussing this. You don't have to run after Muslims in the entire forums and in all threads to tell them your holy book is plagiarized. You should stop trolling Islam and trolling threads.

 

[psychoslice]

Do what exactly?

Stand up to them, get rid of them, blow them off the planet.

 

[TashaN]

Stand up to them, get rid of them, blow them off the planet.

You do realize it's not a video game! right?

 

[outhouse]

You should stop trolling Islam and trolling threads.

This thread is talking about fundamentalism and fanaticism, so im sorry but this is not trolling, it is factually addressing the issues in islam which maybe you want to run from?

You don't have to run after Muslims in the entire forums and in all threads to tell them your holy book is plagiarized.

Just an example here, if you cannot face the truth, or accept the truth, does that leave the door open to accept even more wild and outrageous kinds of faith followed by these terrorist?

 

[outhouse]

What's wrong with the Quran?

Plagiarized mythology, then the book teaches other prophets writings were corrupted over time. It is the only religion that attacks all others beliefs as errant.

Pseudo history and pseudo science, promoted as fact.


A book that can be interpreted in so many different ways, people fight and kill over it.

 

[TashaN]

This thread is talking about fundamentalism and fanaticism, so im sorry but this is not trolling, it is factually addressing the issues in islam which maybe you want to run from?

Just an example here, if you cannot face the truth, or accept the truth, does that leave the door open to accept even more wild and outrageous kinds of faith followed by these terrorist?

Why do you then have this urge to point out at every single thread with keywords like (Quran, Islam, Muslims) that the Quran is plagiarized even if it was irrelevant to the thread?

Plagiarized mythology, then the book teaches other prophets writings were corrupted over time. It is the only religion that attacks all others beliefs as errant.

Pseudo history and pseudo science, promoted as fact.


A book that can be interpreted in so many different ways, people fight and kill over it.

This is exactly what i'm talking about. You are trolling!

The thread asks if ISIS is a disaster for all Muslims and your answer is their Quran is plagiarized?

 

[outhouse]

The thread asks if ISIS is a disaster for all Muslims and your answer is their Quran is plagiarized?

That is not what I said, you ignored the context of my post completely.


I stated if

Just an example here, if you cannot face the truth, or accept the truth, does that leave the door open to accept even more wild and outrageous kinds of faith followed by these terrorist?

Basically if this is religions foundation is fundamentalism and fanaticism, while denouncing other religions, how are you ever going to get rid of terrorist?

It factually addresses the OP.


The fact you cannot accept what I, and all credible historians call the truth, is that the common foundation of islam promoting fundamentalism?


Im just trying to get to the reason why your religion harbors the most amount of terrorist in the world today holding fanaticism and fundamentalist beliefs, and trying to get to a credible answer, and your far from helping anyone here.


This is not a personal attack. It is addressing the area of terrorism and islam, sorry if this is a touchy subject, but there are answers that can be addressed peacefully.

 

[outhouse]

You are trolling!

You are misunderstanding.


Is islam the largest terrorist organization on the planet?

OP is questioning it, why?


Its my belief he is doing so because the religion breeds fanaticism, the question is, do YOU think so?

 

[outhouse]

Them atrocities being committed by ISIS and similar groups are horrifying the non-muslim world.

People will now be suspicious of their muslim neighbours: would they do such things if they thought they could get away with them?

Young muslims leaving peaceful places like Canada to join such groups reinforces the negative impression of islam that the jihadis are producing.

Will things be worse for muslims than they would be without the jihadist groups?

To TashaN


Don't blame me because parts of your religion is " horrifying the non-muslim world "

 

[psychoslice]

You do realize it's not a video game! right?

Dha, of course I do, but you have to start somewhere, its no good letting it get worse, until they have taken over, it will be too late, then some other county or countries have to step in to help.

 

[TashaN]

Dha, of course I do, but you have to start somewhere, its no good letting it get worse, until they have taken over, it will be too late, then some other county or countries have to step in to help.

You think Muslims are too dumb to think "hey let's start getting rid of ISIS before they slaughter us?". It's so ridiculous when people think Muslims are simply sitting idle while ISIS keep flourishing. You have to ask the right questions.

 

[gnostic]

Why do you assume they are going to lie and distort rather than tell the truth? because Muslims are inherently evil? why not assume they are telling the truth until found otherwise?

Evil? No. :no:

Very human, yes. :yes:

Do they all lie? Some do, some don't.

And technically, exaggerating is lying.

Beside, evil is a very strong term, that I personally would never use. I would consider people who murder people in cold-blood and indiscriminately, or people who rape or sexually abuse women or children, to be evil. I don't consider people who write books even though I may disagree with the author(s) or think the authors are exaggerating.

You think Muslims can't lie, embellish or whatever that distort what they say or write about?

Tell me, you do believe everything that were written by Muslims during the few centuries after Muhammad's death?

And I don't just mean what were written by historians or biographers. Not just them, but what were written by clerics and scholars, like in the hadiths.

If you don't accept all hadiths the authentic, then why? Are they all genuine teaching of Muhammad? Is it because they pretend they have sources allegedly passed on to them from their prophet? Could it be that some of the contents were exaggerated?

Don't you think it is embellishment when you read of Muhammad flying to Jerusalem, and then ascend heavens on flying steed? Or in the Qur'an, where it say that Solomon not only command jinns, but understand the speeches of birds and ants, or control winds?

The Christians and Jews have exaggerated with their own scriptures, and you don't think neither Muhammad nor Muslims can?

 

[TashaN]

Evil? No. :no:

Very human, yes. :yes:

Do they all lie? Some do, some don't.

And technically, exaggerating is lying.

Beside, evil is a very strong term, that I personally would never use. I would consider people who murder people in cold-blood and indiscriminately, or people who rape or sexually abuse women or children, to be evil. I don't consider people who write books even though I may disagree with the author(s) or think the authors are exaggerating.

You think Muslims can't lie, embellish or whatever that distort what they say or write about?

Tell me, you do believe everything that were written by Muslims during the few centuries after Muhammad's death?

And I don't just mean what were written by historians or biographers. Not just them, but what were written by clerics and scholars, like in the hadiths.

If you don't accept all hadiths the authentic, then why? Are they all genuine teaching of Muhammad? Is it because they pretend they have sources allegedly passed on to them from their prophet? Could it be that some of the contents were exaggerated?

Don't you think it is embellishment when you read of Muhammad flying to Jerusalem, and then ascend heavens on flying steed? Or in the Qur'an, where it say that Solomon not only command jinns, but understand the speeches of birds and ants, or control winds?

The Christians and Jews have exaggerated with their own scriptures, and you don't think neither Muhammad nor Muslims can?

You are just underestimating the Muslims. There is something which you might not be aware of. Scholars heavily criticized the hadith and have pointed out in many published books the hadiths which they believe to be false. There are many degrees of hadiths, some will be totally false because they have suspicion about him or the they don't believe the story itself being told since it might not be consistent with Quran and Prophet Mohamed teachings. Some will have a medium statues which is neither correct nor false if they are not sure, etc.

Ṣaḥīḥ (صَحِيْ&#1581 is best translated as "authentic".

Ḥasan (حَسَن meaning "good") is used to describe hadith whose authenticity is not as well-established as that of ṣaḥīḥ hadith, but sufficient for use as (religious) evidence.

Ḍaʻīf (ضَعِيْ&#1601 is the categorization of a hadith as "weak".

Discontinuity in the beginning of the isnād, from the end of the collector of that hadith, is referred to as muʻallaq (مُعَلَّق meaning "suspended").

Mursal (مُرْسَل meaning "hurried").

Muʻḍal (مُعْضَل meaning "problematic").

A hadith described as munqaṭiʻ (مُنْقَطِع meaning "broken") is one in which the chain of people reporting the hadith (the isnād) is disconnected at any point.

Munkar (مُنْكَر meaning "denounced").

Shādhdh (شاذّ meaning "anomalous").

Muḍṭarib (مُضْطَرِب meaning "shaky").

A hadith that is mawḍūʻ (مَوْضُوْ&#1593 is one determined to be fabricated and cannot be attributed to its origin.

Causes of fabrication
There are several factors which may motivate an individual to fabricate a narration:
political differences;
factions based on issues of creed;
fabrications by heretics;
fabrications by story-tellers;
fabrications by ignorant ascetics;
prejudice in favour of town, race or a particular leader;
inventions for personal motives;
the desire to promote proverbs into hadith.

Hadith terminology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a science. Muslim scholars don't accept a hadith on a whim. They heavily examine it to avoid fabricated hadiths which they already acknowledge that this problem exist.

It's easy to condemn Muslims history if you allowed your emotions to be altered and affected by the ignorance and nonsense which happen in the Muslim world today. Don't judge the early Muslims based on the actions of the Muslims of today. They all have their own circumstances.

We are not blind and we are not naive. You have to understand this point clearly.