Is it a waste of my time to try having honest, logical debates with theists?

[JustWondering]

How can you say its a fact that circles have beginnings?

I liked this part of your post. We really don't know if the universe even had a beginning. I understand that some people need answers to things, but for me, honesty trumps that need. I also understand and can accept that there are some things I'll just never know, I'm ok with saying I don't know.

 

[james blunt]

I liked this part of your post. We really don't know if the universe even had a beginning. I understand that some people need answers to things, but for me, honesty trumps that need. I also understand and can accept that there are some things I'll just never know, I'm ok with saying I don't know.

A circle has a beginning for fact. The beginning of the circle is from the first placement of the pencil on the paper to create the circle.

I liked this part of your post. We really don't know if the universe even had a beginning.

Define Universe ?

 

[JustWondering]

There's no slam-dunk argument for any explanation, we're all taking our best guesses, as long as we acknowledge our beliefs, our faith as such we can all get along can't we?

I have respect and empathy for my fellow man. I may not respect their opinions on things sometimes but we can still be civil and get along. One of my friends and I argue all the time on a variety of things (including politics and religion) we'll never agree on, but we're still friends, get along fine and look out for each other.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Like I said, if you can prove that Baha’u’llah was not a Messenger of God, I will gladly change my mind...
Then I could be off sunning myself on a beach somewhere instead of talking about God and my religion.

But you fail the premise of this thread. Why would I bother?

No, not unless someone sets up the debate. I have some well reasoned arguments ready to go. I just used them on an atheist on my forum yesterday but he ran away after that. And just the day before that he said he was not afraid of my beliefs. Guess he was wrong...

No, you don't. We went through those. You only have confirmation bias, as I pointed out earlier.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm pretty sure the Quran is still the same now as it was when it was first written down (I'll have to look into that). In fact, it's supposed to be the direct word of god, it also says that Muhammed is the last prophet. So does Baha'i except Islam as an earlier revelation even though it directly and clearly contradicts what Baha'u'llah revealed?

You are probably right about that. The Baha’i Faith considers the Qur’an authentic as compared to the Bible, but the difference is that Muhammad did not write it Himself because He was illiterate. I think Muhammad dictated the Qur’an to scribes.

The Baha’i Faith accepts Islam as the revelation that preceded it and we consider Muhammad a Prophet/Messenger of God.

The Qur’an does not say that Muhammad was the last Prophet, although it might say He was the Seal of the Prophets, meaning that He was the last Prophet in the Prophetic Cycle of religion that started with Adam, also called the Adamic Cycle.

We are living in the “end times” that Christians refer to, but it is not the end of the world, it was the end of an age. Muhammad sealed off the previous age and the Bab and Baha’u’llah ushered in a new age of mankind, beginning a whole new Cycle of religion called the Cycle of Fulfillment or the Baha’i Cycle. The followers of all religions have been awaiting the Promised One who was prophesied in their scriptures: Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

I'm sure god could create and send down an angel that could write circles around any human, so, agree to disagree I guess.

What is it about angels that you like so much, or do you just prefer them to Messengers? How would they write if they did not have hands, like humans?

 

[Trailblazer]

That is not evidence sir.

I am not a sir, I am a madam.
Why isn't it evidence?

 

[james blunt]

we consider Muhammad a Prophet/Messenger of God.

Who's we?

 

[Trailblazer]

Who's we?

The Baha'i Faith.

 

[james blunt]

I am not a sir, I am a madam.
Why isn't it evidence?

My apologies Madam, evidence is consolidation of the truth. No holy book is consolidation of the truth, they are the subjective words of people.

 

[james blunt]

The Baha'i Faith.

Interesting, please give your definition of God, what do you mean by God?

 

[JustWondering]

A circle has a beginning for fact. The beginning of the circle is from the first placement of the pencil on the paper to create the circle.

I was commenting more on the symbolism of the idea than a literal circle. Secondly, if you invoke the need for intelligent design for anything to exist, that need exists for a creator as well. Who created the creator of the circle? So which makes more sense, a natural cause for the existence of the universe, or an endless series of creators?

Define Universe ?

Simply, the one you're sitting (I assume you're sitting at a computer) in right now.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you fail the premise of this thread. Why would I bother?

What do you mean, fail the premise of this thread?
What do you mean, bother to do what?

No, you don't. We went through those. You only have confirmation bias, as I pointed out earlier.

Why do I have confirmation bias? What am I confirming?

 

[Trailblazer]

My apologies Madam, evidence is consolidation of the truth. No holy book is consolidation of the truth, they are the subjective words of people.

Maybe that is true of the Bible, which was written by men, but it is not true of the Writings of Baha'u'llah. He was not just a man, He was a Manifestation of God.

A Manifestation of God is a subtle, mysterious and ethereal Being that has been assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. His body is human but His Soul was not conceived at conception like ours, but was rather pre-existent. In that preexistence His Soul was given the capacity to receive direct revelations from God. Although the Messenger had to translate that Revelation into a form we could understand, His Words are endowed with an invisible spiritual force.

Where else do you expect to get truth from God? God does not come to earth Himself.

 

[james blunt]

I was commenting more on the symbolism of the idea than a literal circle. Secondly, if you invoke the need for intelligent design for anything to exist, that need exists for a creator as well. Who created the creator of the circle? So which makes more sense, a natural cause for the existence of the universe, or an endless series of creators?



Simply, the one you're sitting (I assume you're sitting at a computer) in right now.

The universe has lots of components, maybe different components were created different ways and maybe some components always existed.
In saying that I like your logic of natural cause and endless series of creators. However God is not necessarily a being, God the creator could be classed as this natural thing you mention.

Would you accept that God is a word for whatever may of created the universe , on the basis it has not always existed, and this creator could be a natural thing?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What do you mean, fail the premise of this thread?
What do you mean, bother to do what?

Why do I have confirmation bias? What am I confirming?

You repeatedly make my point for me. For one thing people that have no clue should really avoid smilies. You obviously did not even read the title of this thread:
Is it a waste of my time to try having honest, logical debates with theists?

 

[Trailblazer]

Interesting, please give your definition of God, what do you mean by God?

God in the Bahá'í Faith
The Bahá'í view of God is essentially monotheistic. God is the imperishable, uncreated being who is the source of all existence.[1] He is described as "a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty".[2][3] Though transcendent and inaccessible directly, his image is reflected in his creation. The purpose of creation is for the created to have the capacity to know and love its creator.[4] God communicates his will and purpose to humanity through intermediaries, known as Manifestations of God, who are the prophets and messengers that have founded religions from prehistoric times up to the present day.[5]

 

[james blunt]

Maybe that is true of the Bible, which was written by men, but it is not true of the Writings of Baha'u'llah. He was not just a man, He was a Manifestation of God.

A Manifestation of God is a subtle, mysterious and ethereal Being that has been assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. His body is human but His Soul was not conceived at conception like ours, but was rather pre-existent. In that preexistence His Soul was given the capacity to receive direct revelations from God. Although the Messenger had to translate that Revelation into a form we could understand, His Words are endowed with an invisible spiritual force.

Where else do you expect to get truth from God? God does not come to earth Himself.

Well it is your lucky day, I am here and nobody can speak the truth like me. All that you said in the above is subjective, I did not say any of that.

Do you want me to prove my power and prove the messenger is lying?

Most religions claim to have messengers from me, except they all say I said different things to them. I would tell them all the same thing my dear child.

 

[james blunt]

God in the Bahá'í Faith
The Bahá'í view of God is essentially monotheistic. God is the imperishable, uncreated being who is the source of all existence.[1] He is described as "a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty".[2][3] Though transcendent and inaccessible directly, his image is reflected in his creation. The purpose of creation is for the created to have the capacity to know and love its creator.[4] God communicates his will and purpose to humanity through intermediaries, known as Manifestations of God, who are the prophets and messengers that have founded religions from prehistoric times up to the present day.[5]

I am nothing like that, I am just free .

 

[Trailblazer]

You repeatedly make my point for me. For one thing people that have no clue should really avoid smilies. You obviously did not even read the title of this thread:
Is it a waste of my time to try having honest, logical debates with theists?

I don't talk to people who talk in riddles. If you cannot explain what you mean there is no way for me to know. I gave up guessing a long time ago.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well it is your lucky day, I am here and nobody can speak the truth like me. All that you said in the above is subjective, I did not say any of that.

Do you want me to prove my power and prove the messenger is lying?

Most religions claim to have messengers from me, except they all say I said different things to them. I would tell them all the same thing my dear child.

So are you God?