Is it better to be victims or perpetrators

[Estro Felino]

In other words: if you are hurt by someone, will you fight them back?
Or will you remain inactive, because you don't want to become a perpetrator yourself?

It's a thread which can also be related to what is happening in the Middle East

 

[Estro Felino]

a Christian concept is "Turn the other cheek".
But it doesn't mean that the perpetrator is forgiven or saved.
The perpetrators will have their "reward" in their afterlife. And that is supposed to be sufficient.
But if I fight the perpetrators back, I automatically transform them into victims.
And yet I want them to remain perpetrators, so they can receive what they deserve
in the afterlife.

So I would always prefer to be a victim, rather than a perpetrator.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

a Christian concept is "Turn the other cheek".
But it doesn't mean that the perpetrator is forgiven or saved.
The perpetrators will have their "reward" in their afterlife. And that is supposed to be sufficient.
But if I fight the perpetrators back, I automatically transform them into victims.
And yet I want them to remain perpetrators, so they can receive what they deserve
in the afterlife.

So I would always prefer to be a victim, rather than a perpetrator.

Your desire for them to "get what they deserve" in the afterlife already makes you a perpetrator.

 

[Estro Felino]

Your desire for them to "get what they deserve" in the afterlife already makes you a perpetrator.

It's just a thought. My thought doesn't hurt anyone.

well...there is a huge difference between actions and thoughts.

Actions hurt people and remain carved in history. Thoughts don't

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's just a thought. My thought doesn't hurt anyone.

well...there is a huge difference between actions and thoughts.

Actions hurt people and remain carved in history. Thoughts don't

Keep telling yourself that. Good luck when God calls you out for your maliciousness, hate, and judgement.

 

[Estro Felino]

Keep telling yourself that. Good luck when God calls you out for your maliciousness, hate, and judgement.

Blessed are those who thirst for justice, for they will be filled

source: Gospel.


Maliciousness and hate= I don't hate them. They hated me, given that they hurt me. I didn't hurt them
Judgement= well, if you don't want to be judged, don't hurt anyone. Nobody forces you to hurt someone

 

[Runewolf1973]

Pretty sure God (if there is a God) doesn't reward evil thoughts.

 

[Estro Felino]

Pretty sure God (if there is a God) doesn't reward evil thoughts.

You sin when you hurt someone.
A thought cannot hurt anyone, unless someone has magical powers and can read your mind.

By the way, if God punishes evil thoughts, I can't even imagine what he does as for evil actions...

 

[Runewolf1973]

You sin when you hurt someone.
A thought cannot hurt anyone, unless someone has magical powers and can read your mind.

By the way, if God punishes evil thoughts, I can't even imagine what he does as for evil actions...

A person might perform an evil act like killing someone or stealing, but that does not mean they are a truly evil person. The truly evil person is the one with evil thoughts because you cannot erase what is imprinted on the mind. I can forgive a person for commiting an evil act one time, but I cannot forgive the person who who has always evil on their mind. That kind of evil is unstoppable.



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[9-10ths_Penguin]

In other words: if you are hurt by someone, will you fight them back?
Or will you remain inactive, because you don't want to become a perpetrator yourself?

It's a thread which can also be related to what is happening in the Middle East

My take on it is summed up in two Japanese proverbs:

- the sword that kills is the sword that gives life.

- divine tactics do not kill.

The best course of action possible is peaceful. The options available are often far short of the best possible, so sometimes the best option available - the option with the least net suffering - to stop violence is measured violence against the perpetrator.

 

[Revoltingest]

In other words: if you are hurt by someone, will you fight them back?
Or will you remain inactive, because you don't want to become a perpetrator yourself?

It's a thread which can also be related to what is happening in the Middle East

When defending oneself against assault, there is only one perp....the one assaulting.

 

[Estro Felino]

A person might perform an evil act like killing someone or stealing, but that does not mean they are a truly evil person. The truly evil person is the one with evil thoughts because you cannot erase what is imprinted on the mind. I can forgive a person for commiting an evil act one time, but I cannot forgive the person who who has always evil on their mind.

Mine are not evil thoughts.
I just think that anyone is supposed to get what they deserve.
If you hate someone, you deserve hate
If you love someone, you deserve love

Let's explain it more properly with an example. I love everyone. The person A hates me, even if I love him.
The person A hurts me. Let's say, out of envy. I feel hurt, and suddenly I stop loving him. But I certainly don't hurt him. I hope he stops hating me. But he doesn't.

so..as you can see, who is the evil person between him and me?
a person who is capable of hurting another person, even if one time, is not capable of loving

 

[Quintessence]

In other words: if you are hurt by someone, will you fight them back?
Or will you remain inactive, because you don't want to become a perpetrator yourself?

Do what is in accord with your own sense of honor and virtue.

I can't say what I would or wouldn't do; my code is circumstantial, not dogmatically absolute. But if you're asking if I have a pansy, pacifistic prohibition against physical violence that would cause me to flail around pathetically and be steamrolled by those who don't have such a pansy prohibition, that would be a no. Not that this situation has ever, or will ever, actually come up in my life. I don't exactly live in a war zone, and violent crime is extremely, extremely rare.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Mine are not evil thoughts.
I just think that anyone is supposed to get what they deserve.
If you hate someone, you deserve hate
If you love someone, you deserve love

Let's explain it more properly with an example. I love everyone. The person A hates me, even if I love him.
The person A hurts me. Let's say, out of envy. I feel hurt, and suddenly I stop loving him. But I certainly don't hurt him. I hope he stops hating me. But he doesn't.

so..as you can see, who is the evil person between him and me?
a person who is capable of hurting another person, even if one time, is not capable of loving

I wasn't referring to your thoughts specifically.

 

[Quintessence]

I just think that anyone is supposed to get what they deserve.

Why? Who decides what is "deserved?" In reality, do people get what they supposedly "deserve" according to some arbitrarily declared authority? Seems to me the answer to that is an obvious no.

a person who is capable of hurting another person, even if one time, is not capable of loving

By this measure, all humans except the comatose and fully paralytic are capable of love. That's a little bit awkward, don't you think?

 

[Sir Doom]

Mine are not evil thoughts.

That's too bad.

I just think that anyone is supposed to get what they deserve.
If you hate someone, you deserve hate
If you love someone, you deserve love

Everyone loves and everyone hates. Now what do we all deserve?

Let's explain it more properly with an example. I love everyone. The person A hates me, even if I love him.

Every time someone tells me they love everyone, I instinctively think they are lying. This is just an example though so I'll let it slide.

The person A hurts me. Let's say, out of envy. I feel hurt, and suddenly I stop loving him. But I certainly don't hurt him. I hope he stops hating me. But he doesn't.

And you know he hates you because he hurt you? Or because he said, "I'm hurting you because I hate you."

so..as you can see, who is the evil person between him and me?

Both of you, as usual.

a person who is capable of hurting another person, even if one time, is not capable of loving

That's just completely false. Statistically, we humans harm the ones we love more often than anyone else.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In other words: if you are hurt by someone, will you fight them back?
Or will you remain inactive, because you don't want to become a perpetrator yourself?

It's a thread which can also be related to what is happening in the Middle East

It seems to go that way. Logically one should defend themselves but lately it seems prudent to hold back, and show your horrible scars to a judge later for a huge settlement and lots of media attention.

 

[LuisDantas]

In other words: if you are hurt by someone, will you fight them back?
Or will you remain inactive, because you don't want to become a perpetrator yourself?

It's a thread which can also be related to what is happening in the Middle East

More info is needed before a meaningful answer can be given.

Mainly, how much in the way of choices do I have? How grave and how avoidable is the hurt we are talking about?

Also, how grave is the damage I expect to cause in fighting back, and how able to deal with the consequences are both of us expected to be?

 

[LuisDantas]

You sin when you hurt someone.
A thought cannot hurt anyone, unless someone has magical powers and can read your mind.

By the way, if God punishes evil thoughts, I can't even imagine what he does as for evil actions...

Thoughts are often more harmful than isolated actions, though. Particularly when they become whole ideologies and are allowed to grow unchallenged.

 

[Estro Felino]

More info is needed before a meaningful answer can be given.

Mainly, how much in the way of choices do I have? How grave and how avoidable is the hurt we are talking about?

Also, how grave is the damage I expect to cause in fighting back, and how able to deal with the consequences are both of us expected to be?

Ok, I will give you a very dull example.
Let's say that a man slaps you because he doesn't agree with you. But then he says he's sorry
what do you do?