Is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to missionaries?

[Left Coast]

I agree with the majority, and wonder why you even thought otherwise. Maybe you meant insincerely rather than nicely.

And I feel no duty to people coming to my door to help them use their time more efficiently by getting them along to the next door where they might find a customer. I enjoy the discussions just like I enjoy them here on RF, where the chances of my converting approach zero.



The last time that happened, something unexpected occurred. They're a very nihilistic and pessimistic people, but I'm not. They began by noting how the world is going to hell in a basket, which I guess they supposed was a given and obvious to everybody. I disagreed and noted that never in life had never been so good for so many. They didn't disagree. They just gave up and moved on. Imagine being rejected by the Jehovah's Witnesses without rejecting them first.

I had a similar experience here on RF with a JW when I gave her that answer (somebody once a prolific creationist poster here, but now not seen in years). She was offended that I could be happy in a world where so many were unhappy. She called me selfish. I assumed that she got that from her elders.



That's a good way to chase them off, but that's not my purpose.

Here in Mexico, it's common to see "Este Hogar es Catolico" with a picture of the Virgin of Guadalupe (same virgin as the Virgin of Zapopan - they're all Mary) outside a residence to keep the Testigos (Witnesses) away. Even non-Catholics use them. I know some:

View attachment 71399

We keep an image of the Virgin visible without the sign outside our home. Thieves are less likely to enter.

The English translation is such a polite euphemism for the Spanish there.

 

[Left Coast]

Wàit. Can JWs not pray with non-JW christians?

In general they don't, no. Even other Christians.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The English translation is such a polite euphemism for the Spanish there.

Does the Spanish say, "We don't accept the propaganda of Protestants nor of other sects [denominations]?"

I could make out that much without googling, but I've never studied a lick of Spanish, so I could be off too.

 

[Left Coast]

Does the Spanish say, "We don't accept the propaganda of Protestants nor of other sects [denominations]?"

I could make out that much without googling, but I've never studied a lick of Spanish, so I could be off too.

Correct, that's what it says. Well done!

 

[Debater Slayer]

Correct, that's what it says. Well done!

Wow. That actually fascinates me, but I guess it makes sense considering that I've read how fluency in English can help with Spanish and French.

 

[Left Coast]

Wow. That actually fascinates me, but I guess it makes sense considering that I've read how fluency in English can help with Spanish and French.

There are plenty of words that are helpful cognates between Spanish and English that make understanding easier. But beware false cognates! Lots of those around too.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

I've talked to both JW and LDS members and I usually end up being rude just so they leave me alone. Throw in the word "cult" once in awhile and it will get them to leave you alone. Of course, I should be nice to them, and politely tell them that I'm not interested in joining their religion, but frankly, I'm not at the stage yet where I am comfortable enough with my beliefs which I can just do that. This is probably due to the fact that I've seriously considered in the past to join a Christian denomination or be an apostate of Earthseed. My religion is still very much new to me and I need to learn to accept the fact that the revelations the author and her character had were the same revelations I had as a teenager. I figure once I'm more engrained into Earthseed and feel more confident with my own religion I will learn to talk nicer to people looking to convert or proselytize me. But right now I try to avoid discussions with missionaries of any religion if at all possible.

 

[Viker]

When talking with proselytes or missionaries I always speak kindly and respectful... with just enough hint of malice and a glimmer of psychotic aura.

 

[icehorse]

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

I view that sort of thing as a fun experience. My approach is to be nice, friendly, and VERY provocative

 

[Heyo]

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

It's not very fair to leave someone in a false hope but otoh, it is their mistake to hold that false assumption.
And trust me, the JW know there is just a snowballs chance in hell to convert people. They don't do it to succeed, they do it because they believe they must.
When they came to me, I told them about their chances ("between zero and none" as @Alien826 put it) and invited them to a cup of tea to inform me about their believes. They took the offer and even returned for a second round with a more seasoned apologist. That talk was very informative - to them - as I explained cosmogony and evolution. They didn't return and I guess they put a warning behind my name in their records.
But I expect them to return some day as German Law doesn't allow them to keep personal records of other people.

When the LDS showed up, I didn't have time for a chat, so to their offer "We want to talk to you about god" I simply replied "trust me, you don't". They turned around and weren't seen again.

 

[Sirona]

No. Being nice is neither honest nor dishonest. It's just being nice.

Being fake, on the other hand, is entirely dishonest.

I once brushed off a couple of JWs from the neighbouring town who wouldn't stop sending me letters on the grounds that I disapproved of their practice of cutting off contact with dropouts. However, this does not seem to have made it to the JWs in my town, and unfortunately I find it easier to do this in writing than verbally. However, in case I were a big fat slob who might be a deterrent to those around me, my situation might be quite different.

 

[Sirona]

I view that sort of thing as a fun experience. My approach is to be nice, friendly, and VERY provocative

My grandmother had a regular (uninvited) JW visitor because they were some acquaintance (they had been working colleagues or something like this). At that time I knew a bit about the Bible because it was interesting for me as I wanted to become a Christian/Catholic at any price. So, the lady once tried to convert me, but since she was alone this time, I managed to "defeat her in a duel of words" until she ran out of arguments (usually the second missionary steps in and takes over the conversation in such a situation). She gave up and said to me "This is Satan speaking". I am still proud of that today.

 

[sun rise]

is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

I can be polite and firm. I would stop someone who did not announce why they were there almost immediately whether or not they are selling a religion or solar panels.

 

[John53]

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

We get very few here, only a small town and a bit out of the way, been here about 9 years and all I've had is a letter and a phone call but the other day some JW's actually dropped by. They started with a lie claiming they were checking on my welfare because of all that has been going on in the world so I just said I'm fine and left them to talk to the dog.

 

[ChristineM]

Dishonesty isn't always bad, eg, lying to someone
trying to scam you. And in social situations like RF,
it's useful to feign civility with posters I find immoral,
ignant, & downright repulsive. It keeps the peace.

Thanks

 

[Revoltingest]

Thanks

Oh, you're not all that repulsive.
Not by my standards.

Is that too cloying a compliment?

 

[ChristineM]

Oh, you're not all that repulsive.
Not by my standards.

Is that too cloying a compliment?

Not cloying thought it sets me a target to work to ;-)

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Hi,

I think that most of us can agree on the fact that it's unethical to play nice with somebody with the intent to make them join an (often controversial) religion (a. k. a love bombing), but is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?

Some JWs showed up at my door and I opened the door because I expected the delivery of a package. I suppose they must have changed their rules on how to talk to residents because they were very friendly. I remember scenes from the past with them rattling off Bible verses like a machine gun to get as many Bible verses out as possible in the short moment before the door is closed again. These two approached me although I had a "pagan" statue in my window as well as my Christmas window lights (because in my region one can keep them up until February 2nd). They gave me a brochure and one of them insisted that I should visit their website because it was so crucially important. When I went back to my flat, I heard them talking on the phone through the window that they had given a brochure to Mrs. So-and-So, and I had the impression that they thought they had done a "great job" (Do they have to report by mobile phone now?) Interestingly, they didn't canvass the other tenants in the house where I live, but went away.

I am familiar with the phenomenon of certain religious groups pressuring members to distribute as many books as possible, and from that point of view I feel sorry for them. But I attended a JW service out of curiosity where I felt 100% uncomfortable and therefore I know that I do not want to convert. However, like some others here, I am interested in religion and from that point of view I find it interesting to talk to them.

So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?

I have one important thing to say to missionaries -- and everybody else who touts as necessary what they can't even show to be real: what makes you think that you have the right to try to take another person's beliefs and support systems away from them and supplant them with your own? How did you decide that you are the possessor of absolute truth, and everybody else wrong?

How is it that missionaries throughout history have never noticed that they destroyed -- literally destroyed -- most of the societies they thought they were trying to save? Were they just blind -- or didn't they want to know?

Look to the Portuguese Catholics in Goa, India. You won't like what you see, trust me. Check out British missionaries throughout the South Pacific -- if you are a normal human, what they did will sicken you. Oh, don't forget the Christian residential schools in Canada, where native cultures were intended to be deprived of their own identity so they could "be just like us!" Ugly, ugly, ugly. And the multitudes of unmarked graves of children -- CHILDREN -- speak louder than anything I could say.

Missionaries? In my view, they are the ugliest expression of what it is to be human that exists -- far worse than criminals, who at least know they're doing wrong. Missionaries are filled with so much sanctimony they can't even perceive the harm they do.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

I try not to engage with people who want to convert me to their religion. If I'm lucky, they'll go away before knocking on my door, having seen this little poem I wrote and sign I made:

I thought it was polite. In a macabre sort of way.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I try not to engage with people who want to convert me to their religion. If I'm lucky, they'll go away before knocking on my door, having seen this little poem I wrote and sign I made:

I thought it was polite. In a macabre sort of way.

If it is JW's invite them in. Offer them a beer, or a nice cold cocktail if it is a hot day. Proselytize to them as they do to you. Teach them about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn. And if you are into it and it is legal light a doobie and pass it around.