I know a song about that but it would probably get banned even behind a spoiler.
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Is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to missionaries?
- Thread starter Sirona
- Start date
I know a song about that but it would probably get banned even behind a spoiler.
If I was inclined to engage with them at all, I could tell them they're just in time to join the party in celebration of my birthday.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Open YouTube and discuss what Owen Morgan (Telltale) has to say about them.
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
Not at all. It'll have no effect whatsover on my beliefs, whatever their approach or demeanor. I've been approached in the street and called upon at home; JWs, Latter Day Saints...hell, even tory party candidates! I know my own views and their fantasies bounce off me like facts off a climate change denier. The conversations have always been ended by them too, presumably once they realise they are wasting their time.Hi,
I think that most of us can agree on the fact that it's unethical to play nice with somebody with the intent to make them join an (often controversial) religion (a. k. a love bombing), but is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary although you don't have any intention to change your religion?
Some JWs showed up at my door and I opened the door because I expected the delivery of a package. I suppose they must have changed their rules on how to talk to residents because they were very friendly. I remember scenes from the past with them rattling off Bible verses like a machine gun to get as many Bible verses out as possible in the short moment before the door is closed again. These two approached me although I had a "pagan" statue in my window as well as my Christmas window lights (because in my region one can keep them up until February 2nd). They gave me a brochure and one of them insisted that I should visit their website because it was so crucially important. When I went back to my flat, I heard them talking on the phone through the window that they had given a brochure to Mrs. So-and-So, and I had the impression that they thought they had done a "great job" (Do they have to report by mobile phone now?) Interestingly, they didn't canvass the other tenants in the house where I live, but went away.
I am familiar with the phenomenon of certain religious groups pressuring members to distribute as many books as possible, and from that point of view I feel sorry for them. But I attended a JW service out of curiosity where I felt 100% uncomfortable and therefore I know that I do not want to convert. However, like some others here, I am interested in religionand from that point of view I find it interesting to talk to them.
So, in your eyes, is it "dishonest" to talk nicely to a missionary who is very likely to assume that you want to convert?
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
I did something similar once with a tory party candidate that knocked. I kept him talking forever, all the while thinking "the longer you're with me the less time you'll be spending with others." Plus, it was somewhat amusing to listen to all his ****
(I have been in the reverse situation, doorstepping for the Labour Party).
I'm guessing that Owen Morgan doesn't have anything good to say about them.
Honestly, I'm not so bothered much by JW's, as I have never been threatened or attacked by one.
However, there is a group that calls themselves the Nation of Yahweh that's associated with the Black Hebrew Israelites, and that's of greater concern. They don't come around benignly knocking on people's doors like the JWs do. Instead they do their missionary work by setting up their loud speaker equipment on city sidewalks, blasting out about how they are the "true Israelites" and that Jews are "devils." It's disturbing and pretty intimidating to have to walk past them on the sidewalk. I tend to cross the street to walk on the other side and as far away from them as possible, as some of them have been involved in deadly incidents of violence. Anyway, Google them if you don't believe me.
Heyo
Veteran Member
He's an ex-JW, JWs aren't allowed to listen to him.
And you'll probably never will. JWs take some things very serious, pacifism is one of them. As long as you aren't a JW, they are the nicest neighbours. They only hurt their own.
☆Dreamwind☆
Active Member
I won't say dishonest, just means you were being polite, and responding to them being polite. The JWs around here are almost never pushy. Which makes me wonder if they've changed their modus operandi to respecting the words "No Thank You." I will tell them no thank you, and give them a bottle of water a piece, on days when the temperatures are soaring to 100+.
You've done absolutely nothing wrong.
You've done absolutely nothing wrong.
I don't see anything dishonest about it as long as you don't actually lie. Their misinterpretation of your friendliness isn't a failure on your part.
Personally, I have a low opinion of proselytizing in general and of JW beliefs and practices, so in a way, I consider it a service to others if you're able to engage with them for a long time. Time they spend with you is time they aren't spending trying to convert others, which is a good thing, IMO.
☆Dreamwind☆
Active Member
Oh, that is hysterical!I try not to engage with people who want to convert me to their religion. If I'm lucky, they'll go away before knocking on my door, having seen this little poem I wrote and sign I made:
I thought it was polite. In a macabre sort of way.
... hence the problem with them recruiting more of "their own."
I get the sense that JW proselytizing isn't so much about winning converts as it is about solidifying the church's hold on the people doing the proselytizing.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Whenever JW or LDS missionaries (or any other sort of solicitors) come to my door, I'm polite and friendly, but I let them know that I'm not interested and bid them good day. If they don't take the hint, I just shut the door.
Hardly. But it pays off to keep a clear idea of how you feel and what you want.
It similar situations I tend to seek or find an opportunity for telling the preachers directly, albeit politely, that I am not a part of their target group. Sometimes I go on to say outright that I am not a believer in Abraham's God.
That is usually enough to make them realize that there is no traction to be found in me.
There is a side note about dealing with preachers that I happen to find attractive or charming. It took a very long while for me to learn how to deal with that situation. The key is to be honest with myself; I can wish the person would ask me about something else while also avoiding misconceptions and manipulations.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Now that's a very interesting observation. It could well be the case. It's part of their task as adherents to go and do that. So it's a kind of box-ticking for them, to show they are being good JWs. Just as, rather more disreputably, Dembski used to give course credits for creationists to go on line and troll scientists with ID stuff. The point was not to change minds or convince people but to get the course credits.
I actually doubt that many people embrace religious beliefs due to door-to-door selling. I suspect far more often it comes from reading ideas that appeal, or getting to know people who seem to be good exemplars.
exchemist
Veteran Member
I'm actually somewhat interested to see that, at least according to some of the comments, JWs in the US have a reputation for being a bit aggressive in their style. Here in the UK they have always been very polite and not really insistent. But indeed quite a few of the JWs on this forum are very strident, in a way that initially surprised me.
When I lived, briefly, in Houston in 1999-2000, I found even some of the Catholics were quite strident and unpleasant. I remember picking up a horrible leaflet in a church pew, about abortion I think, which had been printed by something called the Catholic League, run by some guy called Donoghue (who I fervently hope is now dead), and vowing never to darken the doors of that church again.
This makes me wonder if maybe all religion is more assertive and strident in the USA than in Europe. Just a matter of national style perhaps.
The JWs in Australia aren't aggressive but they can be persistent. I always say I'm not interested and they say I'll just tell you this. That's when I walk off and leave them to chat with a yapping white fluffy mutt.
Secret Chief
Vetted Member
Heck, if I can have a nice but pointless chat with a brexit supporting ukip candidate I can sure chat with JWs and the like. I'm going to convert to JWism about as much as I'm going to vote tory. (For nonBrits: that's a likelihood significantly below zero).
My only concern would be the wasting of time, though on past experiences they have been brief encounters.
My only concern would be the wasting of time, though on past experiences they have been brief encounters.
And every rejection they get is a reinforcement that the outside world rejects them, and that the only place they'll find acceptance is in their church.
I think that in the eyes of the church, the high rejection rate is a feature, not a bug.
exchemist
Veteran Member
My view of JWs was fairly indulgent until I joined RF, actually. Then my opinion of them sank like a stone, after I found out - from a somewhat unpleasant Australian JW who I don't think posts here any more - that they are opposed to higher education. I'm still civil with them when they show up on my doorstep but I no longer engage them in conversation.