Is it ever going to end?

[pearl]

Just two years after his ordination in 2017, the Rev. Robert McWilliams was charged with a cascade of sexual assault and child pornography charges. He was sentenced to life imprisonment a few weeks ago, on Nov. 9, in a federal criminal court in Cleveland.

Father McWilliams entered the seminary system in Cleveland in 2008, six years after the abuse crisis detonated on the front pages of The Boston Globe. He could not have been unaware of the fall-out from that crisis and the greater scrutiny that candidates for the priesthood would draw because of it. Despite it all, Father McWilliams, who has not yet been laicized, made it through to ordination and placement in a parish where he soon began a process of internet “catfishing” and sexual extortion involving three teenage boys.

A priest ordained in 2017 is now serving a life sentence for sex abuse. How did he slip through the cracks? | America Magazine

 

[Lain]

Just two years after his ordination in 2017, the Rev. Robert McWilliams was charged with a cascade of sexual assault and child pornography charges. He was sentenced to life imprisonment a few weeks ago, on Nov. 9, in a federal criminal court in Cleveland.

Father McWilliams entered the seminary system in Cleveland in 2008, six years after the abuse crisis detonated on the front pages of The Boston Globe. He could not have been unaware of the fall-out from that crisis and the greater scrutiny that candidates for the priesthood would draw because of it. Despite it all, Father McWilliams, who has not yet been laicized, made it through to ordination and placement in a parish where he soon began a process of internet “catfishing” and sexual extortion involving three teenage boys.

A priest ordained in 2017 is now serving a life sentence for sex abuse. How did he slip through the cracks? | America Magazine

The end of the article from the diocese sums up what I was going to say:

“In the wake of evil acts like those committed by McWilliams, it is natural for good people to want to believe that something could have been done to prevent them, if only people had simply tried harder or done more,” the diocese said. “However, in a fallen world, marred by sin, evil is a reality that often cannot be predicted or prevented despite even the best efforts. Such was the case with McWilliams.”

I do not think there will ever be a complete end or zero instances of this, or else the Lord would not have warned of the wheat and the tares, or the history of Israel's priests would not have been given. As there has been a reduction (for better or worse, as I am skeptical of subjecting the priesthood to psychologists, at least psychologists who do not follow any native Christian psychology) the best has been done in my view. The most annoying fallout (from a large perspective) is the reduction in Church power, but the Lord does as He wills.

 

[exchemist]

Just two years after his ordination in 2017, the Rev. Robert McWilliams was charged with a cascade of sexual assault and child pornography charges. He was sentenced to life imprisonment a few weeks ago, on Nov. 9, in a federal criminal court in Cleveland.

Father McWilliams entered the seminary system in Cleveland in 2008, six years after the abuse crisis detonated on the front pages of The Boston Globe. He could not have been unaware of the fall-out from that crisis and the greater scrutiny that candidates for the priesthood would draw because of it. Despite it all, Father McWilliams, who has not yet been laicized, made it through to ordination and placement in a parish where he soon began a process of internet “catfishing” and sexual extortion involving three teenage boys.

A priest ordained in 2017 is now serving a life sentence for sex abuse. How did he slip through the cracks? | America Magazine

How depressing.

But a salutary reminder of the need to distinguish between the man and the office. There have always been and will always be bad priests. We would be fools to think that ordination makes saints of them all, though I have been lucky enough to have known a number of impressive priests. I have known (slightly) only one who proved to be a kiddyfiddler. The odd thing about him was that, apart from this ghastly perversion, which only came to light later, he too seemed to be rather a good priest. He had a central London parish with a lot of down and outs, many of who were alcoholic. He was hospitable to them and a lot of them used to give him their welfare payments to look after, to stop them drinking them all away. So even he was not in all respects a bad man - he was a fairly diligent parish priest, in fact.

Something to ponder here, I think, about human nature. Bad people can also be good and vice versa. Priests too.

 

[pearl]

(for better or worse, as I am skeptical of subjecting the priesthood to psychologists, at least psychologists who do not follow any native Christian psychology) the best has been done in my view.

I don't understand your reasoning to protect priests from psychological examination.

 

[Lain]

I don't understand your reasoning to protect priests from psychological examination.

Not from psychological examination, but I am currently taking the time to learn about (and apply) psychology that people like Evagrius Ponticus or St. John Cassian taught and learned, I call this or other conceptions (like that of St. Thomas Aquinas) "native psychology," that is it arises from the Tradition, for who else can study the soul better than God? So it would be best to me if they were examined and treated by those who studied, experienced, and were otherwise experts in our "native psychologies" than outside ones which may carry false presuppositions in (see how many psychologists think sin is good for instance and encourage it for "mental health," especially in the areas of sexuality).

In short: rather than an external psychologist trained in whatever it is the outside world is speaking of, a monk would be better to subject them to for an examination, one who is spiritually advanced and has cardiognosis. Such a person is a true psychologist and a true theologian.

 

[halbhh]

Just two years after his ordination in 2017, the Rev. Robert McWilliams was charged with a cascade of sexual assault and child pornography charges. He was sentenced to life imprisonment a few weeks ago, on Nov. 9, in a federal criminal court in Cleveland.

Father McWilliams entered the seminary system in Cleveland in 2008, six years after the abuse crisis detonated on the front pages of The Boston Globe. He could not have been unaware of the fall-out from that crisis and the greater scrutiny that candidates for the priesthood would draw because of it. Despite it all, Father McWilliams, who has not yet been laicized, made it through to ordination and placement in a parish where he soon began a process of internet “catfishing” and sexual extortion involving three teenage boys.

A priest ordained in 2017 is now serving a life sentence for sex abuse. How did he slip through the cracks? | America Magazine

To me the endless examples of sexual predation from around the world point that the Catholic denomination has a key profoundly mistaken idea -- and that seems to me to be the idea that 100% of pastors should be celibate, which has doesn't fit scripture when read carefully, as celibacy is a specific gift from God and the gifts we learn by reading are given individually, and we see clearly in the text that not all have the same gifts.

In other words, we don't choose that for ourselves.

Pastors also aren't indicated in the text anywhere to be restricted to only those who are celibate.

What other cause for the endless sexual predation from a portion of Catholic priests are more central than this mistake?

Some individuals made into priests that were never able -- never inclined -- to be perfectly celibate.

 

[exchemist]

To me the endless examples of sexual predation from around the world point that the Catholic denomination has a key profoundly mistaken idea -- and that seems to me to be the idea that 100% of pastors should be celibate, which has doesn't fit scripture when read carefully, as celibacy is a specific gift from God and the gifts we learn by reading are given individually, and we see clearly in the text that not all have the same gifts.

In other words, we don't choose that for ourselves.

Pastors also aren't indicated in the text anywhere to be restricted to only those who are celibate.

What other cause for the endless sexual predation from Catholic priests are more central than this mistake?

An excellent point. I'm on record already on this forum as supporting both women priests and married priests in the Catholic church. Even the Orthodox allow parish priests to marry. The suppression of sexual feelings can go rotten in many people who are not mentally strong enough. And, God knows, the church needs more vocations. And there is no fundamental reason against it. It's just tradition.

 

[pearl]

Something to ponder here, I think, about human nature. Bad people can also be good and vice versa. Priests too.

Exactly. About twenty years ago one of my grandsons received his first communion. The priest was very popular with everyone. Some years later this priest was arrested for lewd behavior while on vacation in Las Vegas, with another consenting adult. There were thousands of priests suffering from low morale after the Boston headlines broke. I find it unfortunate and unfair to priests that in public discussion there is little emphasis distinguishing homosexuals and pedophiles, the former not being the problem.

 

[pearl]

To me the endless examples of sexual predation from around the world point that the Catholic denomination has a key profoundly mistaken idea -- and that seems to me to be the idea that 100% of pastors should be celibate, which has doesn't fit scripture when read carefully, as celibacy is a specific gift from God and the gifts we learn by reading are given individually, and we see clearly in the text that not all have the same gifts.

What does celibacy have to do with pedophilia? Are you intimating that if the Church ended the discipline of celibacy that would solve sexual abuse within the Church? I agree celibacy is not for everyone and ought to be ended, but I see no connection with pedophilia.

 

[metis]

Yes, it is truly pathetic, but we also shouldn't throw away the baby with the bathwater either. I've seen the estimate of what the percentage of priests are whom researchers believe did or likely did do these atrocities, and it's under 5% if my memory is correct. However, even if it were to be 5%, it's 5% too many.

 

[Link]

Clergy class itself is wrong in every religion. There are no experts in the true religion except his chosen ones and even their words, people attribute them truth and falsehood, and so we all have to use reasoning to discern, and the truth is not something you can institutionalize. Part of the structure that leads to falsehood is clergy class.

Clergy are saying they represent the founders of their religion and so it ends up we don't follow founders, but their interpretation and understanding and what they think the founders taught.

This is a problem addressed through out Quran and the solutions for it are emphasized.

The delegation needs people to attribute purity to themselves, but Quran says, this is only for God to do. And when people find out they are corrupt - it breaks their faith, which is sad.

We need religious leadership but more to be on a social and political application in a down to earth manner guiding believers to face oppressors, oppression and injustice. This same as saying our political and social leaders should take guidance from God and apply it to us and guiding us. Not in this "we know more" "we are more special" "we have some kind of holy purity" type clergy. That's got to go.

 

[halbhh]

What does celibacy have to do with pedophilia? Are you intimating that if the Church ended the discipline of celibacy that would solve sexual abuse within the Church? I agree celibacy is not for everyone and ought to be ended, but I see no connection with pedophilia.

It's not up to us whether we are given that specific gift from God. See? Or see the remainder of my post above, which I tried to reword on my edit into a more clear explanation. When someone that might be able to be a pastor is also artificially pushed to be celibate but didn't receive that specific gift (has other gifts, but not that gift), then.... then they have an intense internal pressure that even Paul openly and clearly said should not be ignored, but that the person "should marry" (I think that's Corinthians chapter 7 if I recall).

 

[pearl]

In short: rather than an external psychologist trained in whatever it is the outside world is speaking of, a monk would be better to subject them to for an examination, one who is spiritually advanced and has cardiognosis. Such a person is a true psychologist and a true theologian.

OK, understood and agree. I assumed the psychologist was 'in house'.

 

[pearl]

It's not up to us whether we are given that specific gift from God. See? Or see the remainder of my post above, which I tried to reword on my edit into a more clear explanation. When someone that might be able to be a pastor is also artificially pushed to be celibate but didn't receive that specific gift (has other gifts, but not that gift), then.... then they have an intense internal pressure that even Paul openly and clearly said should not be ignored, but that the person "should marry" (I think that's Corinthians chapter 7 if I recall).

First, I'm quite sure that Paul was not referring to homosexuals, even less pedophiles. And 2nd, marriage is not a cure for pedophilia, many of whom are married with families and continue to prey on children. Their teachers, coaches etc. I'm sure there are many fine men who are homosexuals and would make fine priests, that's our loss.

 

[Stonetree]

First, I'm quite sure that Paul was not referring to homosexuals, even less pedophiles. And 2nd, marriage is not a cure for pedophilia, many of whom are married with families and continue to prey on children. Their teachers, coaches etc. I'm sure there are many fine men who are homosexuals and would make fine priests, that's our loss.

There is another problem that exhibits itself in the crime of pedophila. If it was as easy to take advantage of more mature victims (adults) the sexual offender would take advantage of adults. Pedophiles take advantage of naive victims who are also more afraid to report the abuse. I believe most pedophiles are retarded as to be able to intimidate someone more their age....just my opinion.

 

[exchemist]

Yes, it is truly pathetic, but we also shouldn't throw away the baby with the bathwater either. I've seen the estimate of what the percentage of priests are whom researchers believe did or likely did do these atrocities, and it's under 5% if my memory is correct. However, even if it were to be 5%, it's 5% too many.

5% is pretty huge though, isn't it? What's the percentage of child molesters in the adult population more generally? Any idea? I'd expect it to be more like 1%. But maybe I'm living in a charmed world, I don't know.

 

[exchemist]

There is another problem that exhibits itself in the crime of pedophila. If it was as easy to take advantage of more mature victims (adults) the sexual offender would take advantage of adults. Pedophiles take advantage of naive victims who are also more afraid to report the abuse. I believe most pedophiles are retarded as to be able to intimidate someone more their age....just my opinion.

That may well be right. People who are stunted in the development of their sexuality may be tempted to resort to short-cuts.

 

[Stonetree]

That may well be right. People who are stunted in the development of their sexuality may be tempted to resort to short-cuts.

I had a friend, a great guy, a seminarian in the nineteen-sixties, who when on summer vacation from the monastery told of the great problem the faculty was continually trying to curb among the students. Seminarians confess every week to faculty priests; there were far too many students addicted to 'self abuse'. That is proof these young men were not capable of self control referring to sexual fantasy.It is just a reminder that the clergy do not have it easy leaving behind continual sexual thoughts or attractions. (just a note) My friend left monastery and finished college and became a very well respected teacher at a college in New York city.

 

[pearl]

Pedophiles take advantage of naive victims who are also more afraid to report the abuse. I believe most pedophiles are retarded as to be able to intimidate someone more their age....just my opinion.

I think that is absolutely correct. And are uncomfortable, or incapable of a mature relationship.

 

[halbhh]

First, I'm quite sure that Paul was not referring to homosexuals, even less pedophiles. And 2nd, marriage is not a cure for pedophilia, many of whom are married with families and continue to prey on children. Their teachers, coaches etc. I'm sure there are many fine men who are homosexuals and would make fine priests, that's our loss.

Pedophilia -- that's an important 2nd thing.

But it's not actually the first cause.

And I'm talking from direct experience.

I actually dated a woman in her late 20s I found very attractive, but who was strangely hard to connect with....

And found out that during those months she was having sex with a Catholic priest.

Probably that's even more common.....

Yes, you read that right.

See what I'm saying? The key first cause is not about the particular sexual orientation of a person -- it doesn't matter what flavor that is even to that first cause -- but about the artificial and unsustainable celibacy, which was invalid from the start.

That some would be attracted to teenagers is totally unsurprising, and is a second thing -- an additional different, second thing.

A second wrong. Very important, major.

But the initial first wrong is the key first problem that enabled that second problem -- that they were not truly celibate persons, not given that gift, but were put in a position of trust with a powerful inner urge unmet, so that their failure was inevitable.

So, pedophilia is simply another bad -- worse -- outcome, to go with the others. More damage, same cause.