Is it moral for God to punish us?

[Greatest I am]

No one is good but the Father.....famous quote.

and yeah, I have little trust in clergy....

The intelligent position.

I agree with that quote in a few ways.

Freud and Jung would as well as they named their Father Complex after it. I think.

They, like myself, saw it in the same way this particular Jesus did.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Note how it all happens internally to each of us.

You will not see the church use this teaching as it empowers and that is the last thing the church want to do. They want sheep and not clear thinking people.


I am a Gnostic Christian, yes, but our beliefs are not what Christianity says they are. We lost the God wars and they distorted our belief system. The lies have been known since the findings of our scriptures and myths at Nag Hammadi.

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

Gnostic Christianity is a teaching system from Jesus but not the one the church ever dares to teach. It frees us from religion and that is of course not what religions want. They never want the student to graduate as they might lose revenue and people.

Here is a bit of history as well as a nutshell version of how that freedom is gained.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

knowing when to lean to terms and when to lean to metaphor .....makes all the difference.

Indeed. While recognizing that translations and alterations have distorted and corrupted all the messages.

Especially what Christianity did when it reversed the moral of many of the stories from good to evil.

Regards
DL

 

[Etritonakin]

Then you do not know love.

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Regards
DL

I was just proving that a creator God does not exist or that he is quite incompetent if he does exist and should not be called a God.

Regards
DL

You do not know God, or the love of God.

The present state of the creation is the result of God allowing man to make choices -and to reject God as God.

God dealt with men directly -and gave them the opportunity to choose.

Our collective choices -and being cut off from the tree of life -have led to the present state of the creation.

The present state of the creation is evidence that the tree of the knowledge of good AND evil is a bad choice.

The creation is not in a finished state.

The present state will result in the finished state.

You cannot say that God should not be called God -or that he is an incompetent creator -because you do not understand what he is creating.

The present state is like a car halfway down the assembly line -an unfinished house, etc.

The present imperfect state will result in our being able to create perfect states -having lived imperfect states which resulted from rejecting God's governmeant time and again.
We will no longer reject God as God -because we will prove he is God by our experience.
We will no longer reject the government of God, because we do not have what it takes to maintain or order the creation without his authority.

We will realize the government of God is necessary to prevent abominable states.

God is not creating perfect humans -he is creating perfect gods -and it could not be done without this process.

God is an excellent creator -but we are little rug rats messing everything -and each other -up.

Someday, we will become responsible -and we can leave our little sandbox -our little playroom -and the 'rents can repair all of the damage we have done.

All things will be made new -but think what you like for now. It is understandable.

This is an extremely harsh reality check. God knows that -but also knows the end will make this pale in comparison -and that this time will eventually no longer be brought to mind.

 

[Sleeppy]

Yes but only if you see God not being inferior to nature.

Nature creates for the best possible end, -- given all the conditions and environment at hand.

If God does less then he is not much of a God.

God's best possible end would be better than what nature can do yet observation shows that he cannot create perfect works the way scriptures say he can.

Regards
DL

Man created GMO's etc, cloud seeding, vaccines, computers etc. - God created mankind. Man is in the process of taming the natural forces. Man is subservient to God.

 

[Greatest I am]

You do not know God, or the love of God.

The present state of the creation is the result of God allowing man to make choices -and to reject God as God.

God dealt with men directly -and gave them the opportunity to choose.

Our collective choices -and being cut off from the tree of life -have led to the present state of the creation.

The present state of the creation is evidence that the tree of the knowledge of good AND evil is a bad choice.

The creation is not in a finished state.

The present state will result in the finished state.

You cannot say that God should not be called God -or that he is an incompetent creator -because you do not understand what he is creating.

The present state is like a car halfway down the assembly line -an unfinished house, etc.

The present imperfect state will result in our being able to create perfect states -having lived imperfect states which resulted from rejecting God's governmeant time and again.
We will no longer reject God as God -because we will prove he is God by our experience.
We will no longer reject the government of God, because we do not have what it takes to maintain or order the creation without his authority.

We will realize the government of God is necessary to prevent abominable states.

God is not creating perfect humans -he is creating perfect gods -and it could not be done without this process.

God is an excellent creator -but we are little rug rats messing everything -and each other -up.

Someday, we will become responsible -and we can leave our little sandbox -our little playroom -and the 'rents can repair all of the damage we have done.

All things will be made new -but think what you like for now. It is understandable.

This is an extremely harsh reality check. God knows that -but also knows the end will make this pale in comparison -and that this time will eventually no longer be brought to mind.

Only fools and liars will say that they fathom something of the unfathomable or know something of the unknowable.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Man created GMO's etc, cloud seeding, vaccines, computers etc. - God created mankind. Man is in the process of taming the natural forces. Man is subservient to God.

You may be thanks to some delusion but that is not what one of the bibles Jesus' taught.

Jesus indicated that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.

He also taught the same of God.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Step up or never know the only God you can ever know.

Regards
DL

 

[Neo Deist]

You can delude yourself into believing whatever you like. You still have nothing to show to prove you are correct.

Gods of the Gaps are a dime a dozen and that is what you have created for yourself.

Regards
DL

It's all about the personal observations!

You can't refute what I see, feel and experience. That is the beauty of deism.

 

[Etritonakin]

Only fools and liars will say that they fathom something of the unfathomable or know something of the unknowable.

Regards
DL

...which does not apply.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Good enough.

Regards
DL

You could have considered that before accusing all hell believers of not thinking well, you know

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Is it moral for God to punish us?

Is it moral for an all-knowing and all-powerful God to set in motion a history that he designs and then condemns others for?

We live in a history that God has set up and is fully responsible for. God, punishing man, who can do nothing but follow God’s plan and the nature God has put in us, is having innocent people suffer for the wrongs God himself has pre-destined and which cannot be altered.

For example.

God chose to have Jesus sacrificed. God, in his planning book would also have decided who would kill Jesus. There would be no way for that man to not kill Jesus or God’s plan would fall off the rails and in this case, we would not have a messiah or scapegoat to ride into heaven.

Some will say we have free will but as shown in the example above, Jesus’ killer could not refrain from killing Jesus without derailing God’s plan. Further, to pre-destine any one action or condition within a history changes all other conditions and pre-destines all conditions within the plan. Think the butterfly effect.

Having said the above and having shown that we have no free will if anything is pre-destined, I think it would be quite immoral for God to judge or punish us for being and doing exactly what he pre-ordained for us in his plan. We have no choice and to punish us is immoral.

Do you agree?

Yes you are right
If I do not have free will, it is not the right punishment

If I was born and everything was written on my forehead
It means that the will for me
Because everything is written
This trend is clear in Islam
Each plane is there any say in the neck
There was an Islamist program speaks
I believe that Christianity is not where this trend
Because Christianity says that God is love
If God is love, it means
The only punishment when they refuse to love
Here, I take personal responsibility optional
Mutanabi poet named in Arabic literature
He refused to paradise when they wanted him to leave the wine
He said in a beautiful hair
Finally, a beautiful idea and I was hoping that the Arab extrapolation
For to me in search of several pages on the subject
Thank you

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

surat al -elsrae
Every man Olzimnah his neck in a plane and get out his doomsday book receives a leaflet (13)
If everything was written in my neck from the first day for this birth
It means
All that I'm doing a non-starter to change my destiny
It is written in my neck
This is the Islamic position
In a matter of freedom of choice

 

[Greatest I am]

It's all about the personal observations!

You can't refute what I see, feel and experience. That is the beauty of deism.

Logical fallacy.

It is not my job to refute what you have not proven.

It is yours to prove you are not just lying both to us and yourself.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Yes you are right
If I do not have free will, it is not the right punishment

Thanks for agreeing.

Regards
DL

 

[prometheus11]

Everything God does is moral even if it's hypocritical. Gods decisions define morality.

 

[Desert Snake]

Morality is subjective.

 

[Greatest I am]

Everything God does is moral even if it's hypocritical. Gods decisions define morality.

Really.

Strange that God gave you a brain yet you refuse to use it.

It seems that scriptures do not agree with you.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You are charged with examining all morals to see if they are actually moral.

Tell us, would your God think it moral to torture a baby for 6 days and then kill it because of his anger towards the father?

Do you think that would be moral?

Regards
DL

 

[prometheus11]

Morality is subjective.

Precisely. Whatever God does, even if he punishes others for the same actions, and even if it is inconsistent with his nature, is moral.

Might makes right and no one is mightier than God.

 

[prometheus11]

Really.

Strange that God gave you a brain yet you refuse to use it.

It seems that scriptures do not agree with you.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

You are charged with examining all morals to see if they are actually moral.

Tell us, would your God think it moral to torture a baby for 6 days and then kill it because of his anger towards the father?

Do you think that would be moral?

Regards
DL

God does not exist. If he does, he defines morality and it is whatever he says it is.

 

[Greatest I am]

Morality is subjective.

I tend to agree but have one irritating tenet that might be objective. I have yet to refute it.

The good/needs of the many outweighs the good/needs of the few.

Is that an objective moral tenet?

Regards
DL

 

[prometheus11]

I tend to agree but have one irritating tenet that might be objective. I have yet to refute it.

The good/needs of the many outweighs the good/needs of the few.

Is that an objective moral tenet?

Regards
DL

No. It's an assumption based on unfounded premises.