Is it necessary to keep Gods Law?

[reddogs]

One day a young ruler came to Jesus and fell on his knees before him. He said, "Good Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus told him 'if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments' and started quoting the 10 commandments; "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother."

The young man said he had kept them from the time he was a boy. He had lived a good life. But the Bible says that Jesus looked into the man's heart and saw something that was keeping him from becoming a follower.

Jesus told him that he still lacked one thing, he must sell the things he owned and give the money to the poor. Then he would have treasure in heaven, and he could follow Jesus. The young man's face fell and he went away sad because he had great riches that he would not part with.

So what does 'if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments' mean to us today?

 

[whirlingmerc]

One day a young ruler came to Jesus and fell on his knees before him. He said, "Good Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus told him 'if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments' and started quoting the 10 commandments; "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother."

The young man said he had kept them from the time he was a boy. He had lived a good life. But the Bible says that Jesus looked into the man's heart and saw something that was keeping him from becoming a follower.

Jesus told him that he still lacked one thing, he must sell the things he owned and give the money to the poor. Then he would have treasure in heaven, and he could follow Jesus. The young man's face fell and he went away sad because he had great riches that he would not part with.

So what does 'if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments' mean to us today?

Partly, Jesus was dealing with an underlying issue that the young man thought he was good in the same sense Jesus was.

Partly, the rich young ruler was putting other things before God might show he is braking in some sense the command 'not to have other Gods before her.

I think part of salvation is being led to Jesus because of your sin and need
and part of salvation is being saved by grace
a result there is more desire to keep the spirit of the law but that is a fruit not the root of salvation.

The anti christ is called the man of lawlessness. I would say you are not saved by the law but are saved to do the works of God and the spirit of the law

 

[Ellen Brown]

It is more necessary to study, meditate, and pray to actually understand what God's """Laws""" are. I am pretty sure that humans have concocted most of them out of a sense of guilt and worthlessness from violating the very simple ones he gave us. Having seen and experienced Amish, Baptist, Muslim, Mormon bizarre ideas about God's punishment, I've gone back to the very basics.

 

[shmogie]

One day a young ruler came to Jesus and fell on his knees before him. He said, "Good Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

Jesus told him 'if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments' and started quoting the 10 commandments; "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother."

The young man said he had kept them from the time he was a boy. He had lived a good life. But the Bible says that Jesus looked into the man's heart and saw something that was keeping him from becoming a follower.

Jesus told him that he still lacked one thing, he must sell the things he owned and give the money to the poor. Then he would have treasure in heaven, and he could follow Jesus. The young man's face fell and he went away sad because he had great riches that he would not part with.

So what does 'if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments' mean to us today?

Well, it doesn`t mean today what it meant at that time and place.

Christ was speaking within the context of the Torah, and all that was required of a righteous Jew.

This was also before the crucifixion, the new covenant.

Today, under this covenant, the law to be kept is declared in the NT, the law of Christ.

This law is not kept to gain salvation, it is kept because of salvation.

Salvation is based upon one thing, justification, being declared positionally righteous before God, by faith.

Sanctification is not to earn salvatation, it is the result of salvation.

 

[reddogs]

Well, it doesn`t mean today what it meant at that time and place.

Christ was speaking within the context of the Torah, and all that was required of a righteous Jew.

This was also before the crucifixion, the new covenant.

Today, under this covenant, the law to be kept is declared in the NT, the law of Christ.

This law is not kept to gain salvation, it is kept because of salvation.

Salvation is based upon one thing, justification, being declared positionally righteous before God, by faith.

Sanctification is not to earn salvatation, it is the result of salvation.

So we are ok to steal, murder, and take others wives in adultery because it was the 'Torah', of course not. What was written by the finger of God, is not from Moses or the 'Torah', it is from the Creator and is part of His character. So its important, and in the new covenant the Law is written in our hearts, so its still there.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

 

[shmogie]

So we are ok to steal, murder, and take others wives in adultery because it was the 'Torah', of course not. What was written by the finger of God, is not from Moses or the 'Torah', it is from the Creator and is part of His character. So its important, and in the new covenant the Law is written in our hearts, so its still there.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Are you then saying that Christ ignored the laws of Deuteronomy and Leviticus ?

Paul is absolutely correct in your quoted post. You assume he is saying that the epistle of Christ is the law written on stone, implanted in the heart by the Spirit.

However, that is not what he says.

The epistle of Christ is not the law written on stone. It is the Gospel, the declaration that Christ came to save humanity from itś sin.

 

[reddogs]

Are you then saying that Christ ignored the laws of Deuteronomy and Leviticus ?

Paul is absolutely correct in your quoted post. You assume he is saying that the epistle of Christ is the law written on stone, implanted in the heart by the Spirit.

However, that is not what he says.

The epistle of Christ is not the law written on stone. It is the Gospel, the declaration that Christ came to save humanity from itś sin.

Just as it says, the Creator wrote the law on stone and in the new covenant it is in the fleshy tables of the heart. Christ was the Creator who wrote the law on stone with His own finger and now in our hearts, and its part of His character, and its not hard to figure out what law it is:

James 2:8
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The above scriptures are clear reference to the Ten commandments being the perfect law of liberty. As Christ did, it clearly points out that love to God and our neighbor is the fulfillment of the law. Its not the Mosaic law (Mitzvot) when he spoke the words of verse 10:"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
Now look at Hebrews:

Hebrews 8:1-13
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The above does not say anything at all about the law of God being done away with. To the contrary, it states that the new covenant will establish the law of God within the minds and hearts of His people. What is clearly being done away with in the above verses, is the old covenant temple, services, and High Priest. They have been replaced by Christ as our High Priest, the temple in heaven where He "ever liveth to make intercession for us", and the spiritual sacrifices of the new covenant which are Christ and Him crucified by the subjection of His body, which is the Church, to the will of God.

These things are clearly taught in the book of Hebrews, and other books of the New Testament. Observe the following -

Hebrews 10:4-10
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Are we a part of the above body or not. The law of God has not been done away for members of Christ's body, but to the contrary, it has been established within their minds and hearts. So we come to the understanding that the Ten commandments, and the fourth commandment in particular, have not been done away with. Lets look at the Bible and understand:

Colossians 2:10-22
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Can we call the Ten commandments which God spoke with His own mouth to humanity, and wrote with His own finger in tables of stone, the commandments and doctrines of men? Of course not.

God wrote the ten commandments, He would not allow man to do so. Moses wrote the rest, because God would allow man to do so. He carved the former in stone as immovable, and the latter was written by a man as that which would one day pass away. The ceremonial laws pertaining to the nation of Israel simply could not continue to apply in a world where all that the ceremonial laws pointed to, had been fulfilled in Christ. Nor could the civil laws pertaining specifically to the nation of Israel be enforced upon all, once the blessings conferred solely upon the nation of Israel, were opened up to all humanity through the same individual who was verily the Son of God, and the Savior of the entire world.

 

[shmogie]

Just as it says, the Creator wrote the law on stone and in the new covenant it is in the fleshy tables of the heart. Christ was the Creator who wrote the law on stone with His own finger and now in our hearts, and its part of His character, and its not hard to figure out what law it is:

James 2:8
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

First, I did not say that Christians are not under a law from God, on the contrary, they certainly are, the law of Christ.

A covenant is a contract. When the terms of the contract arwe fulfilled, it ends in totality.

The first covenant, including the ten commandments was a covenant with Israel, not anyone else, it was with the Jews.

When that covenant was fulfilled, the first covenant ended, and was replaced by the second.

The sabbath was a sign given to the Jews, for the Jews, and no one else. It was a law of rest and separation, like some of the laws people think are whacky, like the clothing, or dietary laws, the sabbath was to reinforce to the Jews that they were different, a separate people, and these laws proved it.

In the OT you will find much criticism of gentiles murdering, raping, sacrificing babies, worshiping idols, but you will find no complaint that they didn´t keep the sabbath, it did not apply to them. Someone may have found this accusation, and if you have it, please share it with me.

So, lets discuss the new covenant, and itś laws.

Please do not take offense if I seem a little harsh on SDA theology, I have to be clear for you, and whoever reads this, as well. I lived and taught SDA theology for many years and I am semi still one of you, and most of my friends are SDAś. I love SDAś, I love their subculture, but I no longer love worshiping the law and the sabbath.

Well, what is the new covenant law, this thing the Spirit puts in our heart ? Love your neighbor and God of course it is much more as well.

One only needs to read the New Testament. Every command of the big ten is reiterated. Perhaps modified or expanded but they are there. All but one, the sabbath, that was for Israel, the New Covenant is for everyone.

Now, you assume the Apostles were commanding sabbath observance, it was so obvious that they didn´t have to mention it. I call Adventism the religion of assumptions, and this is one.

You would think that if the sabbath is so important, that the righteous 144,000 are selected because they keep the sabbath, at least one of the Apostles


18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

The above scriptures are clear reference to the Ten commandments being the perfect law of liberty. As Christ did, it clearly points out that love to God and our neighbor is the fulfillment of the law. Its not the Mosaic law (Mitzvot) when he spoke the words of verse 10:"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
Now look at Hebrews:

Hebrews 8:1-13
1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The above does not say anything at all about the law of God being done away with. To the contrary, it states that the new covenant will establish the law of God within the minds and hearts of His people. What is clearly being done away with in the above verses, is the old covenant temple, services, and High Priest. They have been replaced by Christ as our High Priest, the temple in heaven where He "ever liveth to make intercession for us", and the spiritual sacrifices of the new covenant which are Christ and Him crucified by the subjection of His body, which is the Church, to the will of God.

These things are clearly taught in the book of Hebrews, and other books of the New Testament. Observe the following -

Hebrews 10:4-10
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Are we a part of the above body or not. The law of God has not been done away for members of Christ's body, but to the contrary, it has been established within their minds and hearts. So we come to the understanding that the Ten commandments, and the fourth commandment in particular, have not been done away with. Lets look at the Bible and understand:

Colossians 2:10-22
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Can we call the Ten commandments which God spoke with His own mouth to humanity, and wrote with His own finger in tables of stone, the commandments and doctrines of men? Of course not.

God wrote the ten commandments, He would not allow man to do so. Moses wrote the rest, because God would allow man to do so. He carved the former in stone as immovable, and the latter was written by a man as that which would one day pass away. The ceremonial laws pertaining to the nation of Israel simply could not continue to apply in a world where all that the ceremonial laws pointed to, had been fulfilled in Christ. Nor could the civil laws pertaining specifically to the nation of Israel be enforced upon all, once the blessings conferred solely upon the nation of Israel, were opened up to all humanity through the same individual who was verily the Son of God, and the Savior of the entire world.

 

[shmogie]

Well, I screwed that post up, but I think you can read what I have written so far.

If the sabbath were so critical to salvation and the end times, you would think this important issue would at least be mentioned in the NT, it is not.

Once I came to the conclusion that EGW was at best deluded, at the worst a charlatan , I abandoned the the framework that her writings had created to bolster the assumptions, and I found not once in the NT was sabbath keeping mentioned. If it were required, my friends do not keep it properly.

The law required that the people stay at home and rest. They were not allowed to go to the Temple or meet together in worship, they were required to stay at home and rest.

They did not go to Church, meet at a restaurant afterwords for lunch, and go on nature hikes.

They rested.

Nothing could be clearer than this to show the sabbath is no longer important ¨ one person esteems one day above another, another esteems all days alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it ¨ Romans 14 5-6 NKJV

I know the assumptions about this verse, however, he is speaking to Gentiles about the sabbath.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Well, I screwed that post up, but I think you can read what I have written so far.

If the sabbath were so critical to salvation and the end times, you would think this important issue would at least be mentioned in the NT, it is not.

Once I came to the conclusion that EGW was at best deluded, at the worst a charlatan , I abandoned the the framework that her writings had created to bolster the assumptions, and I found not once in the NT was sabbath keeping mentioned. If it were required, my friends do not keep it properly.

The law required that the people stay at home and rest. They were not allowed to go to the Temple or meet together in worship, they were required to stay at home and rest.

They did not go to Church, meet at a restaurant afterwords for lunch, and go on nature hikes.

They rested.

Nothing could be clearer than this to show the sabbath is no longer important ¨ one person esteems one day above another, another esteems all days alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it ¨ Romans 14 5-6 NKJV

I know the assumptions about this verse, however, he is speaking to Gentiles about the sabbath.

Now days, I try to live like all my days belong to God. No church anymore. It has been on my mind to figure something out for Communion. Even here in Portland, it eventually gets down to either condemning or glorifying my and those like me differences. Don't know what I am going to do?

 

[reddogs]

Well, I screwed that post up, but I think you can read what I have written so far.

If the sabbath were so critical to salvation and the end times, you would think this important issue would at least be mentioned in the NT, it is not.

Once I came to the conclusion that EGW was at best deluded, at the worst a charlatan , I abandoned the the framework that her writings had created to bolster the assumptions, and I found not once in the NT was sabbath keeping mentioned. If it were required, my friends do not keep it properly.

The law required that the people stay at home and rest. They were not allowed to go to the Temple or meet together in worship, they were required to stay at home and rest.

They did not go to Church, meet at a restaurant afterwords for lunch, and go on nature hikes.

They rested.

Nothing could be clearer than this to show the sabbath is no longer important ¨ one person esteems one day above another, another esteems all days alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it ¨ Romans 14 5-6 NKJV

I know the assumptions about this verse, however, he is speaking to Gentiles about the sabbath.

I am sorry you feel that way, but worship and to whom, is a key point coming up to the end.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[shmogie]

I am sorry you feel that way, but worship and to whom, is a key point coming up to the end.

Revelation 14:7
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Salvation is a free gift, totally based on faith. Christians do good things not to be saved, but because they are saved.

I spent an entire summer trying to block out the dogma, and read and reread the NT. Over and over again. I kept notes, wrote questions down then tried to answer them. I bet I read it 100 times.

Afterwards, I resigned my Church offices, turned in my keys, and requested my name be removed from the church rolls.

The true Gospel had found me.

This was a long time ago, when once again the church was split by the true meaning of salvation by faith alone. Finally when it was clear in no uncertain terms the church had rejected the true Biblical meaning, thousands and thousands of us left.

I wish you peace. Contrary to what you may think, you and I could meet on that great day

 

[reddogs]

Salvation is a free gift, totally based on faith. Christians do good things not to be saved, but because they are saved.

I spent an entire summer trying to block out the dogma, and read and reread the NT. Over and over again. I kept notes, wrote questions down then tried to answer them. I bet I read it 100 times.

Afterwards, I resigned my Church offices, turned in my keys, and requested my name be removed from the church rolls.

The true Gospel had found me.

This was a long time ago, when once again the church was split by the true meaning of salvation by faith alone. Finally when it was clear in no uncertain terms the church had rejected the true Biblical meaning, thousands and thousands of us left.

I wish you peace. Contrary to what you may think, you and I could meet on that great day

Salvation is a free gift from God, and yet if we follow another. we can be deceived.

 

[shmogie]

Salvation is a free gift from God, and yet if we follow another. we can be deceived.

What do you mean by follow another ? I can only assume you are implying that I am following the antichrist because I do not believe Christians are required to keep the sabbath.

You will point to Constantines edict restricting sabbath keeping, and thus you will say the Catholic church changed the sabbath. Contsantines edict was directed to Jews, not Christians. He was an antisemite.

Letters exist, and are authenticated, from approx. 200 AD that state that Gentile Christians kept Sunday, and Jewish Christians kept saturday. This was long before Constantine.

So, the sabbath is the badge of the true Christian. Those perfect Adventists who no longer need the blood of Christ and His Grace, all 144,000 of them will prove this.

Not so.

Did you know that in the Gospels when the resurrected Christ was seen, and the day of the week was named, I think 7 times, it was on a sunday ? I wonder why ?

An interesting aside is the international date line. When it was implement over 100 years ago, the day sequence was changed for a large part of the world. The largest population area effected was the Philipine
Islands. They had two fridays in a row. So the Adventists there have been keeping the wrong day for a century. Does God care, I don´t think so.

Then we have the situation of someone approaching the line near sunset, on friday, once across the line it is sunset saturday , the sabbath disappeared.

Finally, to the contention that John saying ¨ The Lords Day¨ in Revelation meant the sabbath, The Lords Day is an exclusively Gentile term for sunday. It was used at that time for sunday. It is used nowhere else in the NT. John, being a Jew, would certainly say sabbath, if that is what he meant. Once again, you would think that if the sabbath was critical, God would ensure that at least here it was mentioned. It was not, a common Christian term for sunday was used.

No doubt many of my Adventist friends will be saved, I am totally confident of that. My older brother to whom I gave Bible studies and died an Adventist certainly will. They are Gods people, they just think they are the only ones.

If Adventism actually did what they preach ¨sola scriptura¨ the Bible and the Bible only, they would be so much better off.

However, they have their own set of inspired scriptures. 19th century America produced at least three, maybe four prophets. All fake, with bizarre ideas.

If you are REALLY interested in the truth, I suggest you read the book ¨ The White Lie¨ by Walter Rea, an Adventist Pastor at the time he wrote it.

Then decide for yourself if a prophet has to steal sentences, paragraphs, and pages from other authors to speak for God. Then read the pitiful defense the ellenologists put forth.

The church hired a firm of catholic lawyers to investigate, who stated all was well because no plaigairism laws existed at the time. a pretty sad prophet, that has to steal from others and pass it off as inspired prophecy,

As a pretty good ellenologist myself, I didn´t stick my head in the sand, I truly wanted to know the truth.

To use Ellens term in Steps to Christ, which she stole from someone else, her standing as a prophet is held together by ROPES OF SAND.

¨ You shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free ! Peace

 

[reddogs]

What do you mean by follow another ? I can only assume you are implying that I am following the antichrist because I do not believe Christians are required to keep the sabbath.

You will point to Constantines edict restricting sabbath keeping, and thus you will say the Catholic church changed the sabbath. Contsantines edict was directed to Jews, not Christians. He was an antisemite.

Letters exist, and are authenticated, from approx. 200 AD that state that Gentile Christians kept Sunday, and Jewish Christians kept saturday. This was long before Constantine.

So, the sabbath is the badge of the true Christian. Those perfect Adventists who no longer need the blood of Christ and His Grace, all 144,000 of them will prove this.

Not so.

Did you know that in the Gospels when the resurrected Christ was seen, and the day of the week was named, I think 7 times, it was on a sunday ? I wonder why ?

An interesting aside is the international date line. When it was implement over 100 years ago, the day sequence was changed for a large part of the world. The largest population area effected was the Philipine
Islands. They had two fridays in a row. So the Adventists there have been keeping the wrong day for a century. Does God care, I don´t think so.

Then we have the situation of someone approaching the line near sunset, on friday, once across the line it is sunset saturday , the sabbath disappeared.

Finally, to the contention that John saying ¨ The Lords Day¨ in Revelation meant the sabbath, The Lords Day is an exclusively Gentile term for sunday. It was used at that time for sunday. It is used nowhere else in the NT. John, being a Jew, would certainly say sabbath, if that is what he meant. Once again, you would think that if the sabbath was critical, God would ensure that at least here it was mentioned. It was not, a common Christian term for sunday was used.

No doubt many of my Adventist friends will be saved, I am totally confident of that. My older brother to whom I gave Bible studies and died an Adventist certainly will. They are Gods people, they just think they are the only ones.

If Adventism actually did what they preach ¨sola scriptura¨ the Bible and the Bible only, they would be so much better off.

However, they have their own set of inspired scriptures. 19th century America produced at least three, maybe four prophets. All fake, with bizarre ideas.

If you are REALLY interested in the truth, I suggest you read the book ¨ The White Lie¨ by Walter Rea, an Adventist Pastor at the time he wrote it.

Then decide for yourself if a prophet has to steal sentences, paragraphs, and pages from other authors to speak for God. Then read the pitiful defense the ellenologists put forth.

The church hired a firm of catholic lawyers to investigate, who stated all was well because no plaigairism laws existed at the time. a pretty sad prophet, that has to steal from others and pass it off as inspired prophecy,

As a pretty good ellenologist myself, I didn´t stick my head in the sand, I truly wanted to know the truth.

To use Ellens term in Steps to Christ, which she stole from someone else, her standing as a prophet is held together by ROPES OF SAND.

¨ You shall know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free ! Peace

Worship is of great importance, and the Creator made the Sabbath for a reason, and when we try to say it no longer is important, then we are turning to another.

 

[shmogie]

Worship is of great importance, and the Creator made the Sabbath for a reason, and when we try to say it no longer is important, then we are turning to another.

No, not at all. He did make the sabbath for a reason,clearly stated, as a sign between he and Israel as part of the first covenant.

You have blown off every reason I have given as to why the sabbath is not binding on gentile Christians, including the fact that keeping the sabbath is no where commanded in the NT, not once, not anywhere.

Strange that God would give us all the directives for living a Christian life, all the information for salvation, and all the laws He expects us to follow, except this one, this one you claim is critically important, how unfair of God.

The Adventist koolaid can run very deep. It is difficult, I know, to realize that instead of a special people with a special badge to wear ( the sabbath) you are just part of the universal Body of Christ, no better than any other believer under Gods Grace.

To state without saying so directly, that I am following satan, is amusing to me.

You follow a woman who had many failed prophecies, stole material by the truck load from other writers, and was manipulated into having ¨visions¨ by J.H. Kellogg and D.M. Canright.

She got confused over who was who in the house of Herod, and wrote of father when she meant the son (according to the Bible) calling the glaring error, inspired.

I could go into much greater detail about things in my research regarding EGW, but you don´t want to hear them.

You are comfortable and self satisfied, you do not want to be confused with facts. It,s OK, there will be blind people in heaven too. Peace

 

[shmogie]

No, not at all. He did make the sabbath for a reason,clearly stated, as a sign between He and Israel as part of the first covenant.

You have blown off every reason I have given as to why the sabbath is not binding on gentile Christians, including the fact that keeping the sabbath is no where commanded in the NT, not once, not anywhere.

Strange that God would give us all the directives for living a Christian life, all the information for salvation, and all the laws He expects us to follow, except this one, this one you claim is critically important, how unfair of God.

The Adventist koolaid can run very deep. It is difficult, I know, to realize that instead of a special people with a special badge to wear ( the sabbath) you are just part of the universal Body of Christ, no better than any other believer under Gods Grace.

To state without saying so directly, that I am following satan, is amusing to me.

You follow a woman who had many failed prophecies, stole material by the truck load from other writers, and was manipulated into having ¨visions¨ by J.H. Kellogg and D.M. Canright.

She got confused over who was who in the house of Herod, and wrote of father when she meant the son (according to the Bible) calling the glaring error, inspired.

I could go into much greater detail about things in my research regarding EGW, but you don´t want to hear them.

You are comfortable and self satisfied, you do not want to be confused with facts. It,s OK, there will be blind people in heaven too. Peace

 

[reddogs]

No, not at all. He did make the sabbath for a reason,clearly stated, as a sign between he and Israel as part of the first covenant.

You have blown off every reason I have given as to why the sabbath is not binding on gentile Christians, including the fact that keeping the sabbath is no where commanded in the NT, not once, not anywhere.

Strange that God would give us all the directives for living a Christian life, all the information for salvation, and all the laws He expects us to follow, except this one, this one you claim is critically important, how unfair of God.

The Adventist koolaid can run very deep. It is difficult, I know, to realize that instead of a special people with a special badge to wear ( the sabbath) you are just part of the universal Body of Christ, no better than any other believer under Gods Grace.

To state without saying so directly, that I am following satan, is amusing to me.

You follow a woman who had many failed prophecies, stole material by the truck load from other writers, and was manipulated into having ¨visions¨ by J.H. Kellogg and D.M. Canright.

She got confused over who was who in the house of Herod, and wrote of father when she meant the son (according to the Bible) calling the glaring error, inspired.

I could go into much greater detail about things in my research regarding EGW, but you don´t want to hear them.

You are comfortable and self satisfied, you do not want to be confused with facts. It,s OK, there will be blind people in heaven too. Peace

Christ tells us who it was made for...

Mark 2:27 King James Version (KJV)

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

 

[shmogie]

Christ tells us who it was made for...

Mark 2:27 King James Version (KJV)

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Yes, and He was speaking to a group of Jewish men, who were required to keep the Sabbath commandment. Did He have to mention the Jewish part of it ?

 

[reddogs]

Yes, and He was speaking to a group of Jewish men, who were required to keep the Sabbath commandment. Did He have to mention the Jewish part of it ?

The Sabbath was made before there were any Jews or Greeks. And Christ should know, as at Creation, all things were made by Him:
John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.