Is it possible that Christianity is true, yet the Bible contains errors?

[jimb]

I will give your personal opinion all the consideration I think it deserves, which, to be honest, is none. Frankly, I didn't expect you to agree because you have a bad habit of accusing others who have a different interpretation of the Bible than your preferred one of "not understanding" the Bible, or in this case, God. I think you sound like a broken record because you've said it so much. I see no reason why I, or anyone else, should take your opinion seriously.

I will give your personal comment all the consideration I think it deserves, which, to be honest, is none. I see no reason why I, or anyone else, should take your opinion seriously.

See how easy it is to make pointless statements?

IF you don't want to debate the subject, why are you here?

 

[jimb]

This is one example of why people question the accuracy of the Bible:
Same story, 4 accounts:
MT 28:1-6
"1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week,a Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

2Suddenly there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and sat on it. 3His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4The guards trembled in fear of him and became like dead men.

5But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. 6He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay."

Mk 16:1-6
"1When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so they could go and anoint the body of Jesus. 2Very early on the first day of the week,a just after sunrise, they went to the tomb. 3They were asking one another, “Who will roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb?” 4But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, even though it was extremely large.

5When they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. 6But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here! See the place where they put Him."

LK 24:1-11
"1On the first day of the week,a very early in the morning, the women came to the tomb, bringing the spices they had prepared. 2They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. 4While they were puzzling over this, suddenly two men in radiant apparel stood beside them.

5As the women bowed their faces to the ground in terror, the two men asked them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6He is not here; He has risen! Remember how He told you while He was still in Galilee: 7‘The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again.’”

8Then they remembered His words. 9And when they returned from the tomb, they reported all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them who told this to the apostles. 11But their words seemed like nonsense to them, and they did not believe the women."

JN 20:1-2
"1Early on the first day of the week,a while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved. “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb,” she said, “and we do not know where they have put Him!”

So, it's agreed a woman, or women, went to the tomb on Sunday morning, but who actually went and who was there instead of Jesus?

You (and others) still think that the gospels are the equivalent of modern journalism. The gospels were written to teach spiritual truths.

 

[jimb]

I believe as far as the interpretation of scripture did not necessarily begin with Luther,

Biblical citations can support that salvation is by both faith and works,

James 2:14-26​

​

Faith Without Works Is Dead​

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

And if your physically unable to "perform works", then what? Nobody is saved by "works".

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

 

[shunyadragon]

And if your physically unable to "perform works", then what? Nobody is saved by "works".

Not remotely the issue here. I DID NOT claim that Biblically there is salvtion by works.

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

Well, apparently the Bible contradicts itself concerning whether salvation is by faith alone or by faith and works.

 

[shunyadragon]

You (and others) still think that the gospels are the equivalent of modern journalism. The gospels were written to teach spiritual truths.

The Bible is not equivalent to modern journalism. As far as independent academic considerations not clouded by the bias of belief in any one religion It is equivalent to ancient journalism without provenance as in different cultures in the history of humanity.

 

[jimb]

Not remotely the issue here. I DID NOT claim that Biblically there is salvtion by works.

Well, apparently the Bible contradicts itself concerning whether salvation is by faith alone or by faith and works.

a) Then why did you write "Biblical citations can support that salvation is by both faith and works"?

b) I don't see that contradiction in the Bible. People are saved by God's unmerited grace, then, as Christians, they are guided by the Holy Spirit to help others.

 

[jimb]

The Bible is not equivalent to modern journalism. As far as independent academic considerations not clouded by the bias of belief in any one religion It is equivalent to ancient journalism without provenance as in different cultures in the history of humanity.

Lot of fancy words, but you're saying the same thing that I am. The gospels were written to instruct people on many issues, irrefutable the important fact that Jesus is God's Messiah. They attest to the many "works" that He performed to prove that, for example, His many healings and His "casting out" of demons.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Well, apparently the Bible contradicts itself concerning whether salvation is by faith alone or by faith and works.

According to Romans 10:8–13, whoever declares with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead will be saved. Not only that, but they are justified by the belief in their heart and the profession of their faith in Jesus, and they will not be put to shame. In fact, verse 13 plainly states, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Furthermore, Ephesians 2:8–9 states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." However, there is an apparent loophole in this seemingly hopeful promise, such as the implication that a person could lose their salvation and be eternally damned if they don't follow God's will.

I'm speaking of Matthew 7:21, which states, "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven," and the parable of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31–46). In this parable, the "sheep" were rewarded with eternal life for their good works of feeding the hungry, giving water to people who are thirsty, inviting in a stranger, clothing the needy, and visiting the sick or people in prison. However, Jesus lambasted the "goats" for failing to feed the hungry, quench the thirst of the thirsty, welcome strangers, clothe the needy, or pay visits to the ill or those in prison. Jesus cursed them and sent them to eternal damnation. As implied, the "goats" lacked the good works to be rewarded with eternal life, in spite of the fact that they were Christians who accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. Herein lies another inconsistent message in the Bible, in my opinion, as Romans 10:8–13 states that a person will be saved if they declare with their mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in their heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. Ephesians 2:8–9 also states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." In my opinion, if someone gives you something as a gift but arbitrarily takes the gift away because you don't follow their rules, then it isn't a gift. I don't consider something a gift if the one who gave it to me could ruthlessly take it away if I don't obey them.

 

[shunyadragon]

Lot of fancy words, but you're saying the same thing that I am. The gospels were written to instruct people on many issues, irrefutable the important fact that Jesus is God's Messiah. They attest to the many "works" that He performed to prove that, for example, His many healings and His "casting out" of demons.

I am not saying the same thing as you. ALL religious scriptures of the world "were written to instruct people on many issues, irrefutable from the perspective of those that believe, It is not irrefutable fact that Jesus is God's Messiah. The Jews refute this claim all the time based on their own scriptures in Hebrew their own language.

Claims of scripture without provenance based on faith is not remotely proof. It is believed as you do based on faith.

 

[shunyadragon]

Lot of fancy words, but you're saying the same thing that I am. The gospels were written to instruct people on many issues, irrefutable the important fact that Jesus is God's Messiah. They attest to the many "works" that He performed to prove that, for example, His many healings and His "casting out" of demons.

I am not saying the same thing as you. ALL religious scriptures of the world "were written to instruct people on many issues," irrefutable from the perspective of those that believe in each of the different religions, It is not irrefutable fact that Jesus is God's Messiah. The Jews refute this claim all the time based on their own scriptures in Hebrew their own language.

Claims of ancient scripture without provenance based on faith is not remotely proof. It is believed as you do based on faith.

 

[jimb]

I am not saying the same thing as you. ALL religious scriptures of the world "were written to instruct people on many issues, irrefutable from the perspective of those that believe, It is not irrefutable fact that Jesus is God's Messiah. The Jews refute this claim all the time based on their own scriptures in Hebrew their own language.

Claims of scripture without provenance based on faith is not remotely proof. It is believed as you do based on faith.

That's what you accept as factual, but I disagree. Jesus is God's Messiah. It makes no difference if the Jews refute this claim. (BTW, I am a Jew, so you should say "some Jews...")

You are obsessed with logical proof, but that doesn't mean anything regarding faith. I accept what the Bible clearly says; logical proof is not necessary.

 

[shunyadragon]

That's what you accept as factual, but I disagree. Jesus is God's Messiah. It makes no difference if the Jews refute this claim. (BTW, I am a Jew, so you should say "some Jews...")

Yes a few Jews become Christians and a few Christians become Jews. Your belief is not the issue. It is a fact that 99%+ of all Jews reject and refute the claims of Christianity based on their own scripture in their own language.

You are obsessed with logical proof, but that doesn't mean anything regarding faith. I accept what the Bible clearly says; logical proof is not necessary.

I do not believe in logical proofs, because they are circular and require on to accept the assumptions, which subjectively justify the conclusion.

Also, claims of belief based on subjective religious texts of all religions without provenance are not provable except by those that already believe..

 

[2ndpillar]

Actually, indulgences were abused by some priests and are very rarely implemented today. And to say that indulgences were ever used to "buy off sins" is plain wrong. Indulgences never removed the guilt of any sin and do not do so now, when they are very rarely implemented.

True, indulgences were a scam, and never removed sins in the past or the present. What is presented as fact, and what is fact, are two different things. The bigger everyday scam, is that priest can forgive one's sins in a confessional, by prescribing prayers directed to a woman who has been long dead. Known as praying to the dead. The biblical foundation pertains to James 5:15-16 is with respect to the prayer of a righteous man, which would be hard to come by in this day and age. And it certainly would not be with respect to a Catholic priest, a representative of a daughter of Babylon (Rev 17:5).

SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS - Scripture Catholic

Contents1 Scripture1.1 I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins1.2 II. The Necessity and Practice of Orally Confessing Sins2 Tradition / Church Fathers2.1 I. The Early Church’s Practice of Oral Confession Scripture I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to...

www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[shunyadragon]

True, indulgences were a scam, and never removed sins in the past or the present. What is presented as fact, and what is fact, are two different things. The bigger everyday scam, is that priest can forgive one's sins in a confessional, by prescribing prayers directed to a woman who has been long dead. Known as praying to the dead. The biblical foundation pertains to James 5:15-16 is with respect to the prayer of a righteous man, which would be hard to come by in this day and age. And it certainly would not be with respect to a Catholic priest, a representative of a daughter of Babylon (Rev 17:5).

SACRAMENT OF CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS OF SINS - Scripture Catholic

Contents1 Scripture1.1 I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins1.2 II. The Necessity and Practice of Orally Confessing Sins2 Tradition / Church Fathers2.1 I. The Early Church’s Practice of Oral Confession Scripture I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to...

www.scripturecatholic.com

There are many many scams in the Protestant and Roman Church in America nothing new.

 

[2ndpillar]

I accept what the Bible clearly says; logical proof is not necessary.

Clearly, you have not been logical, and clearly, as there being around 34,000 sects, not everyone clearly sees the message you see.

 

[2ndpillar]

There are many many scams in the Protestant and Roman Church in America nothing new.

Some scams are worse than others. It is one thing to lose your money, it is another to lose your life. If you went off to the Crusades, that was considered a method of gaining indulgences.

 

[Kathryn]

True, indulgences were a scam, and never removed sins in the past or the present. What is presented as fact, and what is fact, are two different things. The bigger everyday scam, is that priest can forgive one's sins in a confessional, by prescribing prayers directed to a woman who has been long dead. Known as praying to the dead. The biblical foundation pertains to James 5:15-16 is with respect to the prayer of a righteous man, which would be hard to come by in this day and age. And it certainly would not be with respect to a Catholic priest, a representative of a daughter of Babylon (Rev 17:5).

https://www.scripturecatholic.com/sacrament-confession-forgiveness-sins/[/URL}

Sigh. I hate to get into an argument with you but I guess I will. God does say that some people have the power to forgive sins. This would include priests. (John 20:22-23) He tells us to confess our faults in James 5:16. As for Marian doctrine, I am not going to get into all that with you. Please read those verses.

By the way, of course Catholics also believe that God can and does forgive sins. But we'd be missing the benefits of confession, which are many, including penance and some amount of dread if I am going to be completely honest. Also, God's grace comes to us in part through the sacraments, and who doesn't want more of that?

 

[2ndpillar]

I believe as far as the interpretation of scripture did not necessarily begin with Luther,

Biblical citations can support that salvation is by both faith and works,

James 2:14-26​

​

Faith Without Works Is Dead​

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[a] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Luther did not want the book of James included in the canon because it undermined the false prophet Paul. James stated that without works there is no faith. You can have faith, as indicated with the demons, and still come up short. As the "false prophet" of Revelation 16:12 has a demon spirit, it is only reasonable to assume that the false prophet Paul had a demon spirit as well, and his faith paralleled that of the demons which James spoke of.

 

[2ndpillar]

Sigh. I hate to get into an argument with you but I guess I will. God does say that some people have the power to forgive sins. This would include priests. (John 20:22-23) He tells us to confess our faults in James 5:16. As for Marian doctrine, I am not going to get into all that with you. Please read those verses.

There is a difference between a Roman Catholic priest, and the disciples who were given the Spirit of God (John 20:22). The disciples were able to raise the dead, and heal the sick, by forgiving their sins. The Roman priest cannot forgive the sins of others, or of themselves. As for James, he was referring to the prayers of righteous men, not of the priests of the god Sol Invictus, the god of the Roman emperor Constantine (beast of Rev 13:11), who initiated the Roman church by incorporating into the "Christian" church, the gods (dragon of Rev 13:4) of his empire.

 

[shunyadragon]

Luther did not want the book of James included in the canon because it undermined the false prophet Paul. James stated that without works there is no faith. You can have faith, as indicated with the demons, and still come up short. As the "false prophet" of Revelation 16:12 has a demon spirit, it is only reasonable to assume that the false prophet Paul had a demon spirit as well, and his faith paralleled that of the demons which James spoke of.

Nonetheless the Book of James is part of the Canon of virtually all Christianity. Which sect of Christianity do you belong to that rejects the Book of James.