Is it possible to investigate Bahaullah's claim?

[InvestigateTruth]

One of the major claims Bahaullah made, was that, He did not have education in religion, however, when we read His Writings which are just many, we see He had detail knowledge of Religions.
Well, then He claims, He did not acquire His knowledge through human learning, but rather He was given all knowledge to Him by God.


Let's set aside whether or not He received any knowledge from God for the purpose of this discussion.

The Question is: Is it possible to investigate this subject through available historical sources, and any other methods to come to a concrete conclusion if Bahaullah did not have any human learning in the subject of religions in particular? If possibly He had any education, how much was it, and what subject and at what level exactly?

Are there enough historical resources or anything else available to us to know if, indeed Bahaullah had not studied subjects of religions?




In His letter to the King of the Time, the ruler of Persia, Bahaullah wrote the following letter:

"I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely."

Baha'u'llah

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

For thousands of years there have been people who claimed to have some special information that God has given them.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

For thousands of years there have been people who claimed to have some special information that God has given them.

Ok, did they also claim, they had not studied religions?

 

[Harel13]

It's certainly possible that Baha'u'llah had no formal religious education but learned a lot from speaking to people of other religions.

 

[oldbadger]

Bahauallah was the son of an extremely rich and influential government official.
He received a fine education.

 

[Windwalker]

I suppose it's possible. After all Neo in the Matrix learned Kung Fu through a direct download. He was really good at it, considering he never actually studied it. Same with Trinity, learning how to fly that helicopter. That was awesome.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It's certainly possible that Baha'u'llah had no formal religious education but learned a lot from speaking to people of other religions.

Maybe Bahaullah learned by speaking to people of different religions.
Is it possible to know if indeed this was the case, or this was not the case?

So, the question is: are there enough historical information to know if Bahaullah had learned either through formal education, or through speaking to people of other religions? I mean, just to come to a concrete conclusion.

 

[Rival]

When you are living in a culture permeated by religion you take a lot of it in; more than you realise. Many people in the Medieval Period could not read, but if we could resurrect a person from that era and speak with him today, I'm sure his knowledge of Scripture would blow most people away, even Christians. You hear it in the Church, at the festivals, from your families, in the marketplace, in the law courts; you pray before bed, over food etc. It's easy to concieve that Bahaullah was living amongst this kind of religiosity day to day even in the 19th c., and very clear that he could read and write - which gives him even more of an edge.

One needn't be trained in religion to know a lot about it, or at least enough to put some of it in your new lawbook and whatnot. I've never been to any sort of religious training in my life, no Scripture classes, no formal acceptance into any Church; but I can have meaningful religious dialogue with folks on here just after having read Scripture and talking to other religious people

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Bahauallah was the son of an extremely rich and influential government official.
He received a fine education.

It is true Bahaullah was the son of a rich official. But how can we know, if He received fine education in religion? Sounds like too quick Judgement to me.

 

[oldbadger]

It is true Bahaullah was the son of a rich official. But how can we know, if He received fine education in religion? Sounds like too quick Judgement to me.

He most probably received a private education with his own teachers.
Having read Bahauallah's claims over the years I have to treat this one of his with extreme scepticism .

 

[InvestigateTruth]

When you are living in a culture permeated by religion you take a lot of it in; more than you realise. Many people in the Medieval Period could not read, but if we could resurrect a person from that era and speak with him today, I'm sure his knowledge of Scripture would blow most people away, even Christians. You hear it in the Church, at the festivals, from your families, in the marketplace, in the law courts; you pray before bed, over food etc. It's easy to concieve that Bahaullah was living amongst this kind of religiosity day to day even in the 19th c., and very clear that he could read and write - which gives him even more of an edge.

One needn't be trained in religion to know a lot about it, or at least enough to put some of it in your new lawbook and whatnot. I've never been to any sort of religious training in my life, no Scripture classes, no formal acceptance into any Church; but I can have meaningful religious dialogue with folks on here just after having read Scripture and talking to other religious people

All of it is possible. But I don't see how it answers question in OP.

Normally no people know details knowledge of religions, unless he has a formal education.
Most people know some basic math, even if they were not trained in math. But, if a person is not trained in math, and has not studied the subjects much by himself, he would not know more than those who have PhD in math.
Same with religion, if someone has not studied religion either in school or by his own reading books, he may have still pick up some knowledge about religion from here and there, but, would he be more knowledgeable than those who have a Doctoral in religion?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

He most probably received a private education with his own teachers.
Having read Bahauallah's claims over the years I have to treat this one of his with extreme scepticism .

Ok, but probably yes or probably no, is not really the answer to OP. The question is, can we know with evidence and certainty the answer. Maybe Bahaullah is innocent in His claim, and maybe we are too quick to judge. Why not investigate scientifically?

 

[Rival]

Normally no people know details knowledge of religions, unless he has a formal education.

This is completely false. Almost no-one knows when Michaelmas is anymore, but ask anyone prior to the 20th century and they'd likely know. Ask them what it's all about and they'd likely know. Most people prior to the 19th c. were not formally trained beyond extreme basics in religion, as we'd consider it, but just by living it day to day they'd know more than most people do now.

Most people know some basic math, even if they were not trained in math. But, if a person is not trained in math, and had studied the subjects much by himself, he would not know more than those who have PhD in math.

People can and do make good self-study and some can go above and beyond. David Bowie was self-taught in music.

List of autodidacts - Wikipedia

Same with religion, if someone has not studied religion either in school or by his own reading books, he may have some still pick up some knowledge about religion from here and there, but, would he be more knowledgeable than those who have a Doctoral in religion?

Bahaullah never said he didn't read any books, though.

 

[Left Coast]

Most people know some basic math, even if they were not trained in math. But, if a person is not trained in math, and has not studied the subjects much by himself, he would not know more than those who have PhD in math.
Same with religion, if someone has not studied religion either in school or by his own reading books, he may have still pick up some knowledge about religion from here and there, but, would he be more knowledgeable than those who have a Doctoral in religion?

Did Bahaullah's knowledge of religion exceed that of people with PhDs in those fields?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's certainly possible that Baha'u'llah had no formal religious education but learned a lot from speaking to people of other religions.

Then we would have to consider all the times that religious tradition was quoted, and all the learned divines did not know of the tradition until they researched the quote.

From my study those random quotes were first used to discredit the knowledge shown by Baha'u'llah, until they found out otherwise, then sorcery was then accused.

We could also consider why the most learned divines wanted to silence Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Did Bahaullah's knowledge of religion exceed that of people with PhDs in those fields?

Yes, that was proven at each discussion.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Question is: Is it possible to investigate this subject through available historical sources, and any other methods to come to a concrete conclusion if Bahaullah did not have any human learning in the subject of religions in particular? If possibly He had any education, how much was it, and what subject and at what level exactly?

I do not know if there has been enough history released from Iran to determine this.

What we can say though is that statement was made by Baha'u'llah as proof of His message in Persia. If it was false, what I think we would find is those that tried to discredit Baha'u'llah would have used the statement to show Baha'u'llah a Liar.

As no material exists to discredit the statement, it appears it is based in truth.

Regards Tony

 

[Left Coast]

Yes, that was proven at each discussion.

Regards Tony

Really? Show me one.

 

[Vinayaka]

One of the major claims Bahaullah made, was that, He did not have education in religion, however, when we read His Writings which are just many, we see He had detail knowledge of Religions.
Well, then He claims, He did not acquire His knowledge through human learning, but rather He was given all knowledge to Him by God.


Let's set aside whether or not He received any knowledge from God for the purpose of this discussion.

The Question is: Is it possible to investigate this subject through available historical sources, and any other methods to come to a concrete conclusion if Bahaullah did not have any human learning in the subject of religions in particular? If possibly He had any education, how much was it, and what subject and at what level exactly?

Are there enough historical resources or anything else available to us to know if, indeed Bahaullah had not studied subjects of religions?




In His letter to the King of the Time, the ruler of Persia, Bahaullah wrote the following letter:

"I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely."

Baha'u'llah

What is it you actually wish to debate? You've already made up your mind. Do you want other opinions, or do you want confirmation of your opinion? If it's the first, then it could be a debate. If it's the second, then it's not a debate, but a search for approval of an opinion, and a fake debate just to keep the Baha'i faith alive and discussed on these forums.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Really? Show me one.

That would divert the OP.

Those stories are available and all I will offer in this OP is that in the end, they did not meet Baha'u'llah challenges, as they knew they could not match the wisdom.

So is there evidence that Baha'u'llah studied?

All I have found to date is that he received the childhood education that was available at the time and attended no advance religious studies.

Regards Tony