Is it praying or chanting?

[gnostic]

It is customary for Muslims to pray 5 times a day.

What do they pray about?

Are the prayers same?

Or are the prayers different for different parts of the day, but repeated the next day? (What I mean, for example morning prayer, noon-day prayer, evening prayer, etc. Are the morning prayers the same for everyone? The same evening prayers for everyone? etc)

Are the prayers ritualistic or follow a certain formula, like chanting?

Is it really a prayer, if each prayer follow the same formula? Because if a prayer is the same as yesterday, day before, and every day of the week, then wouldn't that be called chanting or hymn?

 

[Tanuki]

Each prayer follows the same formula with the same dhikr (mostly), however the choice of which surahs of the Qur'an one recites after Surah al-fatiha is left up to the individual. This ensures that the prayer is filled with the adoration of God and shows that the person praying puts all their trust in God without any selfishness on his part.

There are numerous websites which give the prayers in detail, and if you want to know what is contained in them simply search - ways to perform salah.

Also, the length of the total salah, differs depending on the time of day. For example, dawn prayer is only 2 ra'kah long, whilst Zuhr (noon) prayer is four ra'kah.

Whilst it does follow the same formula it is definitely not chanting. Such would be like calling the daily Mass used by Catholics as chanting (due to its use of liturgy) when Catholics (including a friend of mine who is a Catholic priest) would say it is most definitely a form of prayer which enables one to deepen their relationship with God and proclaim HIS MAJESTY, as the salah does.

 

[gnostic]

Thanks for explaining the prayer that Muslims prayed each day.

Each prayer follows the same formula with the same dhikr (mostly), however the choice of which surahs of the Qur'an one recites after Surah al-fatiha is left up to the individual.

What I don't understand is why Muslims would select something (surahs) from the Qur'an, to pray with. Why would you use a surah for prayer?

It definitely showed a person's devotion to the scripture. I don't mean to belittle your custom, but it does seem to be a hollow prayer, simple reciting scriptural verses for a prayer?

Please don't take offence with my question. I just don't understand religious custom or for the needs to thing ritually, whether it be Islam, Christian, Hindu, etc. I've been around Christians most of my life, and I still don't understand it. To me, it (referring the "it" to rituals in general) just seem pointless.

 

[Tanuki]

The Jews pray by reciting the Psalms, as do the Christians so it is not simply a Muslim thing.

The Qur'an is our teaching to live by, and so by reciting it we are constantly reminding ourselves of how we should be living.

Also, what better way to praise God and than using His own word? If you were a songwriter for example, would you not be flattered if someone sang to you a song you yourself had written? I would be - not matter how badly they did it.

It also adds structure to our prayers, and gives us a guide, as the Lords Prayer does for Christians.

Also we do not simply repeat the verses, but to concentrate on what we are saying such as the pronunciation, etc, even if one doesn't know Arabic, as it shows the Creator how much we wish to please him.

 

[beenie]

in addition to the standard prayer of Islam, there follows "du'a" (supplication). at this time, you pray for whatever/whomever you wish. this is the more personalized form of prayer, and can be said at any time.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Thanks for explaining the prayer that Muslims prayed each day.



What I don't understand is why Muslims would select something (surahs) from the Qur'an, to pray with. Why would you use a surah for prayer?

It definitely showed a person's devotion to the scripture. I don't mean to belittle your custom, but it does seem to be a hollow prayer, simple reciting scriptural verses for a prayer?

Please don't take offence with my question. I just don't understand religious custom or for the needs to thing ritually, whether it be Islam, Christian, Hindu, etc. I've been around Christians most of my life, and I still don't understand it. To me, it (referring the "it" to rituals in general) just seem pointless.

Did you ever thought about asking about the principles of Islam before askinng about the deeds performed? If its principles are pointless to you, theres no doubt every deed will be pointless to you also

 

[gnostic]

Did you ever thought about asking about the principles of Islam before askinng about the deeds performed? If its principles are pointless to you, theres no doubt every deed will be pointless to you also

I've never understood ritual and custom. It doesn't matter WHAT RELIGION it is, I am always puzzled over the repeat something, over and over again, whether it be daily, weekly, monthly or yearly.

One of these customs are prayers, which are repeated or using passages from the scripture or hymn book. These sounds more pointless like Christian monks chanting their prayers from prayer books.

I understand the supplication or thanksgiving in prayer, but not the reciting. This I understand what ssainhu's wrote:

in addition to the standard prayer of Islam, there follows "du'a" (supplication). at this time, you pray for whatever/whomever you wish. this is the more personalized form of prayer, and can be said at any time.

Personal prayers, I can understand. Thanksgiving prayers I can understand. And this du'a which ssainhu, I can understand.

But not simply reciting. Anyone who knows the Qur'an by heart can recite the passages, but this sounds impersonal and cold; detached. It show devotion to the scripture, devotion to the custom and devotion to the ritual, but it sounds more like paying lip-service, than genuine feeling. I know that your devotion to your god and religion are real and genuine for each one of you, but to me, it doesn't sounds this way.

I hoped this explain why I said it sounds "pointless".

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Good for you , now whats the point?

A- Your prayers are pointless, look how you say it over and over!
B- Hmmm, I think you're right
And B stopped praying

Dont get over burden with something that is not a big matter for you ( pointless), and stick to what you care about, and we'll stick to what we care about : Prayer

 

[gnostic]

Good for you , now whats the point?

A- Your prayers are pointless, look how you say it over and over!
B- Hmmm, I think you're right
And B stopped praying

Dont get over burden with something that is not a big matter for you ( pointless), and stick to what you care about, and we'll stick to what we care about : Prayer

Fine then, fatima. Have it your own way. I have no wish to argue with you further. I am sorry. :sorry1:

I wasn't arguing with you that you shouldn't pray. Far from it. I simply don't understand "why" Muslims follow this custom of reciting passages from the Qur'an when they pray. The question is "why" this method?

I don't know if it is English is your second language or not, because you don't seem to get my point. You are misunderstanding my posts, even though I have tried to clarify it twice. My use of the word "pointless" was simply from my view or perspective; I wasn't indicating they were pointless to Muslims; and I was merely asking for and hoping clarification to the "why". Perhaps my method of delivery was point and not clear, though I've tried a couple of time to clarify what I have said (which was clearly unsuccessfully).

I wasn't calling upon Muslims to stop praying, and it was never my reasoning for starting this topic. I am sorry that I didn't make this clear enough, and it is my fault for our misunderstanding. I am also sorry if my questioning "your way" have upset you. :sorry1: My apologies extends to all Muslims if I upset anyone who took part in this topic, unconditionally and unreservedly.

So I will concede the argument to you. I just hope that you're not angry with me because I didn't mean to upset anyone, least of all, you, fatima.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

It was really cool to read you post and your PM

I apologise myself if I was rude in my answer, but it has nothing to the english being my secondary language , its just that Ive seen a lot of your threads and posts and they have this teint of mockery ( or at least thats how I read it) , so I apologise myself for misunderstanding you.

Just to explain myself, I can easily swallow the questions like , why is it obliged on women to put Hijab in Islam,? But questions like why do you bow or why do you read Quran in prayer instead of chanting a song , or why do you stand on your feet instead of sitting down in prayer, or or or .. This is the kind of questions I cannot swallow, why? Because I cant see the point behind them ( it does not affect the questioner in anyway ) the same way the questioner does not see the point in what we're doing.

Ill quote you some sentences that made me think what I think:
" I am always puzzled over the repeat something, over and over again, whether it be daily, weekly, monthly or yearly."

Each day is different, and each day we should adore Allah and use prayer to keep our stability and calmness, so it can help us with the daily troubles and to keep us steadfast on the path. Thats why for example we read al fatiha , which includes:
5. You (Alone) we worship, and You (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything). 6. Guide us to the Straight Way





Another quote:
" These sounds more pointless like Christian monks chanting their prayers from prayer books."


?? You could have said it in a better way



Now, about reciting from Quran; Each verse has a different meaning for us, when its talking about hell it make us more humble and fearing the consequences of our sins, it show us our deeds so small and our sins so huge that it help us working more , and become more humble.


When we read a passage about heaven, we wish and make duas to enter paradise and be from the winners, even though we know how much sins we do everyday. It make us ask for forgivness. When we see a ruling verse, then we learn our religion from it and we ponder over the wisdom of Allah in it. Each verse has it own specific effect on the heart and therefore on our own deeds. I hope this clarify a bit




Im sorry myself if I misunderstood you, and I have to say that it is very rare on here to see people apologising for something, so I thank you for that and I wish you could accept my apologies too





Best regards, and I wish what Ive said was clear and precise this time

 

[gnostic]

It was really cool to read you post and your PM

Thank you, fatima

Ill quote you some sentences that made me think what I think:
" I am always puzzled over the repeat something, over and over again, whether it be daily, weekly, monthly or yearly."

Please, let me clarify that paragraph, fatima. This referred to "customs" and "rituals" in general, I was not simply talking about how people pray. Here is the full quote:

I've never understood ritual and custom. It doesn't matter WHAT RELIGION it is, I am always puzzled over the repeat something, over and over again, whether it be daily, weekly, monthly or yearly.

It's not so much prayer that I don't understand is what people do "custom" or "ritual". However, this topic is about prayers or how people pray, so I must admit my paragraph may have confuse you what I was referring to - "prayer" or "custom/ritual".

In any case, it is the ritualistic nature of prayers that do confuse me.

Although Tanuki did explain quite well about the standard prayer, the use of recitation of the Qur'an do raise more questions.

To help you understand, I do live in life with some customs and traditions (I have Chinese background, as well as some Western ideals). It is not a "do all, ends all". I can do little or even without customs and tradition and it wouldn't worry me in the least, because they are really not my highest priority. I don't let traditions and customs rule my life. You, and almost every religious people, rely heavily on customs and traditions, and I can understand their needs and respect that. What I don't understand is the nature of customs (traditions as well) and rituals.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

What about the explanation of reciting Quran I provided? What do you think of that ?

Best regards

 

[beenie]

the beauty of the Qur'an is that it is all-encompassing. there will definitely be verses that you can recite that will apply to every step/situation in your life. for instance, if someone is ill in your family, the second surah you recite can be one which relates to recognizing that Allah is all-powerful and can heal your family member; if you're feeling weak in your faith, there will be a surah that supplicates to getting closer to Allah again...etc. you can always find a surah that relates to your current situation.

the essence of all of these rituals and customs (if you're a believing Muslim) is that we may not always know why we have to do something; if we firmly believe that Allah is all-knowing, then we must accept that he knows what is best for us (even though we don't).

to be honest, prayer (the formal 5 prayers a day) are really the only "ritualistic" acts that may be seen as others is "cold"....although i disagree.

it's all about perspective; there are so many who think the solitude with Allah during prayer is the most beautiful "ritual" they've ever seen.

all the best

 

[gnostic]

What about the explanation of reciting Quran I provided? What do you think of that ?

Sorry. Being press for time, and not always devote to one thread, I took the time to clear another misunderstanding, that I forgot about the other part of your post.

Each day is different, and each day we should adore Allah and use prayer to keep our stability and calmness, so it can help us with the daily troubles and to keep us steadfast on the path.

Yes, I got that the prayer and the recitation were different each day by Tanuki, and the choice of surah used in the prayer is up to each individual.

But your explanation showed that the prayer help comforts people, and they find words in the Qur'an comforting. I understand that this has great value to anyone who seek it.

I'd supposed this is true for people who used the scripture as their prayers would be the same as those who used personal prayer.

I supposed if I was a god, I would think that I would most likely answer a personalized heartfelt prayer than one that was recited from any scripture. That was one of the reason why I used the word "pointless" and "hollow" in my previous post that you've criticized. This is just my view, of course.

It is like a work of art such as a painting. The greatest value come from individual artist creating his own theme, composition, etc, than an artist simply copying another painter's original painting. Another person can copy Leonardo's Mona Lisa painting, but it is worthless when compared to the priceless original masterpiece. It is the originality of the 1st work that make the artwork priceless.

But I supposed many people are not good with words, or not good at articulating their needs or feeling in their prayer, so reciting the Qur'an would be far easier.

Do a god really need you to pray to him by reciting certain part of the Qur'an?

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

God does not need anything, its us who need to stay comfortable, steadfast on religion, and balanced. Quran is there for our own sake, not Allah's one . ALlah says in Quran (4:28)

28. Allah wishes to lighten (the burden) for you; and man was created weak

And regarding personal prayers, then the prophet peace be upon him said what means that one is the most close to Allah when he/she's prostrating, so ask and pray for whatever you want in that position.

Personal prayers are not only restricted to Salah ( prayer) , you can pray whenever you want. And there are special times where prayers are more to be answered than others, like in the third part of the night ( Time before the predawn prayer) , when one break his fast at sunset, and others like between Adhan ( call for prayer) and the prayer itself.

Allah says in Quran (2:186):

[SIZE=+1]186. And when My slaves ask you (O Muhammad

) concerning Me, then (answer them), I am indeed near (to them by My Knowledge). I respond to the invocations of the supplicant when he calls on Me (without any mediator or intercessor). So let them obey Me and believe in Me, so that they may be led aright.

Hope it helps
Best regards
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