Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God?

[Sgt. Pepper]

But what if you’re wrong and there is such a God?

FWIW, Pascal's wager isn't a convincing argument in a theological debate.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not blame God for the fallen condition of the world because God has nothing to do with it. I also do not blame the devil because I do not believe there is a devil. I blame who is responsible and it is humans who are responsible for evil acts, not God. Men break the Laws of God and that is why there is evil in the world. It is as simple as that.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150

With all due respect, quoting Bahá'í verses aren't any more convincing to me than quoting scripture from the bible to convince me that God isn't evil. You follow Bahá'í, but I don't. Therefore, it's not a convincing argument for me, because I don't believe it.

So, no, it is not as simple as that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Could be incorrect belief.

Or it could be the human ego that gets in the way of correct belief.

 

[ppp]

This is where your bias is speaking. You are speaking that way because you do not believe there is an All Knowing Being Who possesses true knowledge. But what if you’re wrong and there is such a God?

.

Your response makes no sense. Are you saying that I am biased to the standard dictionary definition of the word 'dogma'? That's just what the word means.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is not only atheists who wonder why a loving God would allow suffering, I also wonder.

I never ask this question because God gave us freedom of choice so it’s up to us if we use it for good or evil. I never understand why acts we blatantly commit get blamed on God. He calls us to love, to peace to unity but we refuse. That’s our fault not His.

God sends His Messengers Who go through absolute hell to try to put us on a good path and yet we continue refusing to accept responsibility for our own wrong moral choices.

You’re speaking just like the Christian’s who won’t build a new world but expect God to come down magically on a cloud, waving a magic wand and establishing peace. What an irresponsible cop out that is.

I’m tired of God being blamed when it’s people that kill, steal and do the nuking then conveniently blame it on God. God already sent us Baha’u’llah for this age and now the ball is in humanity’s court. Unite or have another war which is it?

If there is another war with billions dead I can assure you it will be our own doing not God’s.

God doesn’t allow suffering, we allow it, promote it and dish it out by the truckload to other humans. God wants to see us happy, loving, united and peaceful but He’s not going to turn us into robots to achieve that because if our freedom of choice were taken away we would no longer be able to love or be loved but be mechanical beings who do no harm to each other.

We bring on our own suffering and God allows it because He already sent Baha’u’llah and we refused to turn to Him so we will have to learn the hard way.

You tell a kid not to play with matches but they don’t listen then they get badly burnt and we all learn to play with fire is dangerous. God warns us but we ignore Him. So the only alternative is for us to either learn from our mistakes through the consequences which means suffering, or God turn us into robots who can’t think and feel but only obey Him.

 

[ppp]

Or it could be the human ego that gets in the way of correct belief.

Or your claims are just not credible. And your ego won't let you admit it.

 

[Trailblazer]

With all due respect, quoting Bahá'í verses aren't any more convincing to me than quoting scripture from the bible to convince me that God isn't evil.

Why do you think that I am trying to convince you of anything? I only quoted the verses to back up what I said.

It is completely illogical to think that God is evil and my verses demonstrate why God is not evil by showing why humans become evil. It is only human emotions that cause people to 'believe' that God is evil, not human reason.

It's what you believe, and that's fine. However, it's not a convincing argument for me, because I don't believe it.

You will never see what God really is as long as you are mired in your emotions instead of using your reason...
Been there done that.

There is a BIG difference between wondering what a loving God would create a world with so much suffering and calling God evil. I hated God for many years but I was rational enough to know that God was not evil, and I finally came to realize that the reason I hated God was because of distortions in my mind. I still do not love God but that is in between me and God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Or your claims are just not credible. And your ego won't let you admit it.

Not credible does not mean not true. People believe all kinds of things.
Maybe it is your ego that won't let you see what is right before your face.

 

[Trailblazer]

God got furiously angry towards mankind for behaving exactly the way he knew they would turn out, and he went totally psychotic by killing every living creature on Earth in a global flood, except for Noah and his family. And instead of learning from his atrocious genocidal mistake, he regrets killing off humanity and allows mankind to flourish upon the Earth again.

I find it very sad that you believe all those Bible stories. It has been proven by geologists and archaeologists that there was never a global flood.

If I believed those stories I might come to the same conclusions you come to, but thank God Baha'u'llah explained the Bible for humanity, although few people as yet believe what He wrote.

 

[ppp]

Not credible does not mean not true. People believe all kinds of things.
Maybe it is your ego that won't let you see what is right before your face.

There is a leprechaun on your lap right now handing you the cure for cancer. You've known this all your life and you keep resisting the truth. Obviously the only reason you don't see it is because of your ego. Just set aside your ego and help the world.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Your response makes no sense. Are you saying that I am biased to the standard dictionary definition of the word 'dogma'? That's just what the word means.

You only call it dogma because you are unaware of its Source. Dogma comes from man not God.

 

[Trailblazer]

I never ask this question because God gave us freedom of choice so it’s up to us if we use it for good or evil. I never understand why acts we blatantly commit get blamed on God. He calls us to love, to peace to unity but we refuse. That’s our fault not His.

Whenever I say that I wonder why there is so much suffering in the world I am not wondering about the suffering that is caused by human free will choices, because I understand why that suffering exists. I am wondering why God created such a world in which He KNEW that humans and animals would suffer through no fault of their own.

Many humans suffer through no fault of their own, because of a free will choice of another human that affects them or because of a natural disaster.

If you believe in an all-powerful God, then God is responsible for that which humans cannot choose. I often wonder why Baha'is cannot see what is so obvious. Could it be that they do not want to see what God is responsible for because that might call their belief in an all-loving God into question?

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.” Some Answered Questions, p. 248

If man is not responsible for these things that means that God is responsible for them and they are our fate, which God is responsible for. Man is compelled to endure them because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the bad things happen are beyond our control.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It has been proven by geologists and archaeologists that there was never a global flood.

I don't want to derail my thread, but if you're going to make a claim like this, then please sufficiently substantiate it, with reliable scientific facts. If you would like to continue this particular discussion, then maybe we should start another thread. Thanks.

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood | Earth Age

Evidence for a Flood | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

Evidence found of Noah's ark flood victims | The Guardian

Scientific Evidence for the Many Myths of the Great Flood | Ancient Origins

 

[Trailblazer]

There is a leprechaun on your lap right now handing you the cure for cancer. You've known this all your life and you keep resisting the truth. Obviously the only reason you don't see it is because of your ego. Just set aside your ego and help the world.

God spoke through His latest Messenger and revealed the what will be needed to save humanity.
Obviously the only reason you don't see it is because of your ego. Just set aside your ego and help the world.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Your response makes no sense. Are you saying that I am biased to the standard dictionary definition of the word 'dogma'? That's just what the word means.

One doesn’t have to be religious to be biased or dogmatic. Atheists can be very dogmatic and biased also.

I think that any belief based on reason is not dogma but faith and trust in God are not dogma either.

What is dogma is blindly believing in other people or oneself.

 

[ppp]

You only call it dogma because you are unaware of its Source. Dogma comes from man not God.

No. I would call it dogma even if there were a God for it to come from. All dogma means is that the rules come from an authority that is taken to be absolutely true. Irrespective of whether or not that authority exists.

Perhaps you don't realize that Dogma is a theological word. In Christianity it literally means belief inspired by Divine Revelation. I don't know what religion or sect you are, but if you don't believe me, talk to your clergy.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

There is a leprechaun on your lap right now handing you the cure for cancer. You've known this all your life and you keep resisting the truth. Obviously the only reason you don't see it is because of your ego. Just set aside your ego and help the world.

Touché. Well played, Policy.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't want to derail my thread, but if you're going to make a claim like this, then please sufficiently substantiate it, with reliable scientific facts. If you would like to continue this particular discussion, then please start another thread on this subject. Thanks.

Scientific Evidence for a Worldwide Flood | Earth Age

Evidence for a Flood | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

Evidence found of Noah's ark flood victims | The Guardian

Scientific Evidence for the Many Myths of the Great Flood | Ancient Origins

Even if there was a worldwide flood that does not mean that God caused it.
Does any of the scientific research say that God flooded the world?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Even if there was a worldwide flood that does not mean that God caused it.
Does any of the scientific research say that God flooded the world?

Are you moving the goalposts now? You initially said that geologists and archaeologists proved that there was never a global flood, but now you're saying that even if there was a global flood, that doesn't mean God caused it. For the record, I seriously doubt that any secular science would acknowledge that God flooded the world. Secular scientists would insist that a global flood was a natural disaster while Creationists, and other Christians, would insist that a global flood was caused by the God of the bible.

 

[ppp]

One doesn’t have to be religious to be biased or dogmatic. Atheists can be very dogmatic and biased also.

I think that any belief based on reason is not dogma but faith and trust in God are not dogma either.

What is dogma is blindly believing in other people or oneself.

Ok. Just stop. Go sit down with a dictionary or a learned clergy of your choice and figure out the usages of the word 'dogma' and how they apply. I understand that there are pejorative forms of the word, but it is the standard Christian description to of the core set of divinely inspired beliefs.