Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God?

[ppp]

Touché. Well played, Policy.

Thank you. But it falls on deaf eyes.

 

[ppp]

God spoke through His latest Messenger and revealed the what will be needed to save humanity.
Obviously the only reason you don't see it is because of your ego. Just set aside your ego and help the world.

Funny, that's exactly the same thing that I just said. I am glad you finally agree with me.

Save the leprechaun. Save the world!.

 

[F1fan]

God got furiously angry towards mankind for behaving exactly the way he knew they would turn out, and he went totally psychotic by killing every living creature on Earth in a global flood, except for Noah and his family. And instead of learning from his atrocious genocidal mistake, he regrets killing off humanity and allows mankind to flourish upon the Earth again.

Right. This Christian version of the God of Abraham is less reliable than Windows 98. How many patches are required, and it still doesn't work right.

The only fix is to NOT interpret Genesis literally. And to NOT interpret the theology about Jesus literally. It all can work symbolically quite well, but that isn't the traditions of Christianity, so they are left with a bad set of beliefs.

 

[F1fan]

This is where your bias is speaking. You are speaking that way because you do not believe there is an All Knowing Being Who possesses true knowledge. But what if you’re wrong and there is such a God?

.

Then it is a God that is immature and as flawed as any troubled human.

There are stable and wise humans that we should worship before the Christian version of God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Whenever I say that I wonder why there is so much suffering in the world I am not wondering about the suffering that is caused by human free will choices, because I understand why that suffering exists. I am wondering why God created such a world in which He KNEW that humans and animals would suffer through no fault of their own.

Many humans suffer through no fault of their own, because of a free will choice of another human that affects them or because of a natural disaster.

If you believe in an all-powerful God, then God is responsible for that which humans cannot choose. I often wonder why Baha'is cannot see what is so obvious. Could it be that they do not want to see what God is responsible for because that might call their belief in an all-loving God into question?

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.” Some Answered Questions, p. 248

If man is not responsible for these things that means that God is responsible for them and they are our fate, which God is responsible for. Man is compelled to endure them because God set it up that way since we live in a material world where some of the bad things happen are beyond our control.

I’m not one to question God’s wisdom. I fully trust that He wants what is best for us and everything in creation is for our benefit.

Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.

Bahá'u'lláh
Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh

 

[ppp]

Right. This Christian version of the God of Abraham is less reliable than Windows 98. How many patches are required, and it still doesn't work right.

The only fix is to NOT interpret Genesis literally. And to NOT interpret the theology about Jesus literally. It all can work symbolically quite well, but that isn't the traditions of Christianity, so they are left with a bad set of beliefs.

Yeah. There has to be a literal Jesus as described in order for their eschatology to work. It's a lynchpin.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The premise of my thread is to debate the questions posted below, and my debate thread is open for anyone to answer, Christian or non-Christian alike. Answer yes or no to the questions, and then substantiate your answer. Christians should note that quoting scriptures isn't a convincing argument, because the bible has ample examples of God either directly killing people and ordering the Israelites to wipe out entire nations, including killing women, children, and infants (1 Samuel 15:3). For instance, God commanded the Israelites to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2; Deuteronomy 25:17).

First question: Why would a loving, merciful God create evil (Isaiah 45:7)?

Second Question (Part 1, 2, and 3): Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God in light of the Holocaust and in light of every other inhumane atrocity and tragedy in human history? What about the rampant rate of murder, sexual assault, abuse, starvation, and deadly diseases and viruses? Are all of these examples that I provided compatible with the belief in a loving, merciful God?

Please take all of these examples into consideration while deciding how you will answer the questions. Please be civil in your replies, and absolutely no name-calling or disparaging remarks about the people who believe differently than you.

I look forward to the replies. Thank you, in advance, for answering the questions.

Sgt. Pepper

On holocausts and major incidents like ethnic cleansing and such, this is the guidance that came from God through Baha’u’llah in the 1800’s before the UN had been established. Had humanity heeded this advice there would not have been world wars or any Holocaust.

The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. (Baha’u’llah)

This teaching is so innovative and cutting edge that humanity is yet to achieve it. God, through Baha’u’llah, stated that collective security was required to establish peace on earth yet we are still struggling to use it. Meanwhile brutal dictatorships like that in Burma and Syria slaughter their citizens with impunity, commit genocide and ethnic cleansing in full view of the world community. Tyranny has continued because this advice is not being implemented.

Well before the Holocaust and world wars, the above call was raised from God by Baha’u’llah. God very much cares but it’s us that just keep ignoring the best advice and counsel we could ever ask for.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans faced with their life destruction. Right now in various human owned scenarios.

Science and scientist their human brothers with machines. Mr designer inventor controller in a self idolised I am a special human lie.

Stephen Hawking healthy baby then mutated sacrificed life. Says your brother is taking over life by machines.

As sacrificed destruction of biology.

Fact brother wants life taken over by machines by claiming a human is a God. God he says he resources by products. Claims a human owns all cosmic bodies in a life. Non stop product advice he theoried.

Mind contact AI..mind coercion chemical brain NDE changes. Machine themed ... I want God he says. Yet his mind designed built then controlled constantly the machine. First.

Machine his idol his constant control his God a self belief. The scientist.

Brothers said he is possessed. He thinks he is superior being.

So the bible by a Jesus re view said category. The category don't self idolise. Yet science does.

Science owns the argument against its own person.

You made Jesus the man a self idol. Science idolises itself. Father natural was never a podium owner. Science man is and was. Stands above everyone in science terms.

Father natural.
Father first.
Father not Adam.
Father loving spiritual.

Men changed consciousness into two.

AI psyche subliminal attacked by designer not our first as father.

Human memory humans higher God supported life gone.

Halved.

Half water now used recorded image voice of living or dead ..light or dark all seen by the same status.

Machines using recordings man says is God. I want God as my god machine then I want God the alien inside my machine to react it.

Machine for machine says science.

Talking about radiation cold metal mass. Earth given it by sun attack. Sun gave it to gods body. Sun did not give it to a humans body

See how dangerous theists are!!!

Earth once a crystal planet the teaching God earths fusion Atlantis. fusion. Said sAtanlit.

Then tries to convince humans you are an alien first so let me pass the alien through your bodies into my machine. By heavens gases that I cannot take from heaven. Instead I take it from God earth.

It will only destroy you. You know you are evil began from evil he says. Pretending to be a God himself.

String earth metal cold of sun equals machine. Heavens state not included.

So now he is trying to force you to believe he is correct. By claiming God the product reactions loves you. God of science.

The scientist.

Earth as god.. God's could destroy all life at any moment.
Earths heavens could destroy life any moment.

Not any God who loved.

Humans bio living the consciousness. Consciousness changed into two status a historic teaching. What scientist plus machine feedback caused to mind brain belief.

Father not the scientist in memory is just a humans memory of life living in water...its highest owned..... water
In the heavens abducted from life. Water taken speaks to us and water returns to us. By pre existing state.

Oxygenation in extra water gained returned heals us.

Science is an outright liar. Stephen hawkings frustration real as a scientist. I learnt what he meant about the self possessed self idolised brother who asked why father hurt him when he did it as baby man to himself.

The choice science wisdom by adult biology learnt from first father's death as death. Just a human.

Why he told you science gave C a value 100 years of human life.

You don't live a 100 years you survive to count 100 years. Each year is one.

So if man knew his heavenly life survived 100 years by C then he tried to instantly in the moment by calculus to eradicate it. Using letters with numerical.

AI says can I get over the burn. Can I use the advice as a weapon. Heard it's statements recorded. Instant combustion. Science the design reasoned first. By living human origin holy spiritual conscious.

Memory theists.

Human scientist designer destroyer.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Then it is a God that is immature and as flawed as any troubled human.

There are stable and wise humans that we should worship before the Christian version of God.

I believe in Buddha and love the Dhammapada. There is so much wisdom and truth in all He taught.

My favourite saying comes from the Thousands.

“A man may conquer ten times ten thousand men in battle but the true conquerer is he who conquers his own self”

I believe in both Buddha and Jesus. I find that each expresses different facets of truth but passages like the Beautitudes and Dhammapada teach only virtue and kindness to all.

 

[rational experiences]

I’m not one to question God’s wisdom. I fully trust that He wants what is best for us and everything in creation is for our benefit.

Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.

Bahá'u'lláh
Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh

Said by the living in ownership of pain suffering seeing suffering wanting release by a themed meaning.

Humans suffering suffering suffering is our biological memories.

Psychic healer. I've had enough of human lying statements said by non suffering humans. Mind effected chemically in imaged reactive heavens introduced causes not natural reality.

Overlooks humans basic life truths.

A promise one day when you are deceased you won't suffer. Just ignore that your science brother caused human suffering by fall of man radiation fallout.

Humans natural say no. I won't be indoctrinated. I am natural first and still use remember natural family life was first. Humans natural life memories is first. Not any message.

Messiah.
Mess the Age. Future life will change as message says cold gases returned. Meanwhile another prophet man's life elsewhere gets shroud Turin life sacrificed.

Ignored advice about two states.

Healthy holy heavenly human lived biologies of life. Was first. The message was never first it was Inherited.

In truth in mans future life the healed heavens returning he dies in biology.

As the storyteller.

 

[F1fan]

I’m not one to question God’s wisdom. I fully trust that He wants what is best for us and everything in creation is for our benefit.

What is best for a 3 year old child that is diagnosed with Leukemia?

You seem to think God wants this for this child given it's what happened to the daughter of clients of mine. A little less than two years later she was dead.

I understand believers have to defend the dogma they accept, but I don't see how anyone can defend this. I find it a little disgusting, actually. To think a child had to suffer like that for some unknown reason that only a God knows. And this God is worshipped?

 

[rational experiences]

What is best for a 3 year old child that is diagnosed with Leukemia?

You seem to think God wants this for this child given it's what happened to the daughter of clients of mine. A little less than two years later she was dead.

I understand believers have to defend the dogma they accept, but I don't see how anyone can defend this. I find it a little disgusting, actually. To think a child had to suffer like that for some unknown reason that only a God knows. And this God is worshipped?

Which God should be a humans question.

A God of love would say I never ordained it.

Holy human father our consciousness. Non scientist.

A God of science by wisdom blood bone biology owned no existence in a beginning thesis would expect the results. As he theoried anti life.

Consciousness used for both ideas both statements.

 

[F1fan]

Yeah. There has to be a literal Jesus as described in order for their eschatology to work. It's a lynchpin.

Yeah, the fear-based doctrine needs the coercive threat of hell, and the promise of salvation, to make the sell. If Christianity was passive and just set out challenges to how the self manages itself it would be too much work for the average believer. Nor could the flock be as easily manipulated for social and political causes. No wonder there are some 42,000 sects of Christianity. It covers everyone from bleeding heart liberals, to moderates, to the KKK. You need a real big theological buffet of ideas to cover that many diverse believers, and everyone have the "truth".

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you moving the goalposts now? You initially said that geologists and archaeologists proved that there was never a global flood, but now you're saying that even if there was a global flood, that doesn't mean God caused it. For the record, I seriously doubt that any secular science would acknowledge that God flooded the world. Secular scientists would insist that a global flood was a natural disaster while Creationists, and other Christians, would insist that a global flood was caused by the God of the bible.

Since I have no goals I have no goalposts. Only people who are trying to WIN arguments have goals.

For the record, I do not know what the consensus is among scientists regarding a global flood.

If there was a global flood I would agree with the secular scientists.
All religious people do not believe what Christians believe.

 

[Trailblazer]

The only fix is to NOT interpret Genesis literally. And to NOT interpret the theology about Jesus literally.

I agree. The old OS will never work. Then why don't atheists update their OS?

 

[ppp]

The only fix is to NOT interpret Genesis literally. And to NOT interpret the theology about Jesus literally. It all can work symbolically quite well, but that isn't the traditions of Christianity, so they are left with a bad set of beliefs.

Well, it is not the best set of beliefs either. Not the worst for bronze aged people, but there is no excuse for a modern society to be based on that book, either literally or figuratively.

 

[rational experiences]

Yeah, the fear-based doctrine needs the coercive threat of hell, and the promise of salvation, to make the sell. If Christianity was passive and just set out challenges to how the self manages itself it would be too much work for the average believer. Nor could the flock be as easily manipulated for social and political causes. No wonder there are some 42,000 sects of Christianity. It covers everyone from bleeding heart liberals, to moderates, to the KKK. You need a real big theological buffet of ideas to cover that many diverse believers, and everyone have the "truth".

Human reality.

Healer went house to house like a doctor owned no organisation.

Family community tribal member first. Herbal.

Organisation of science nuclear pyramid sciences civilization builder greedy self Idolator.

False pretence man's ego.

Gets irradiated in Rome and Rome began burning era Nero. As a hypocrite scientist then builds resonant healing building.

Science temple building gone. Replaced.

Shroud Turin irradiated mind 1000 year later. Scientist self possession re emerged. Baha'i brought reminder of Jesus life sacrificed murdered by science group.

Re emerged tried to rebuild Jerusalem circuit Jeru turned science building. Fight against science nuclear practice real.

Why his message was not wanted as advice.

Science in every church re preached book opened pulpit scientist placed into church. The reason.

Humans using science terms preach self destructive biological reality.

By concepts the teaching false preacher

The bible sciences review was a shut legal case. Human law.

 

[rational experiences]

Since I have no goals I have no goalposts. Only people who are trying to WIN arguments have goals.

For the record, I do not know what the consensus is among scientists regarding a global flood.

If there was a global flood I would agree with the secular scientists.
All religious people do not believe what Christians believe.

There is heavenly by man life flooding globally everyday.

It saves human and animal life flooding as it cools burning irradiated gases by man science builder radiation fallout. Caused built by God earth theists.

Water as water in theory first does not own nature gardens oxygenation for biological existence as blood bodies.

The teaching about wood in the story. Man's evil tree of life thesis took water and biologies oxygen away from health. Blood cell bone diminishes until we become life deformed removed as time shift.

As just water does not allow life.

The teacher a human healer. The teacher was not a scientist theist machine builder reactor.

Science hence misquotes the terms of the teaching as it was not science. Data by natural earth status. It was science versus science theories.

Science caused earth globally to flood.

 

[nPeace]

The premise of my thread is to debate the questions posted below, and my debate thread is open for anyone to answer, Christian or non-Christian alike. Answer yes or no to the questions, and then substantiate your answer. Christians should note that quoting scriptures isn't a convincing argument, because the bible has ample examples of God either directly killing people and ordering the Israelites to wipe out entire nations, including killing women, children, and infants (1 Samuel 15:3). For instance, God commanded the Israelites to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2; Deuteronomy 25:17).

First question: Why would a loving, merciful God create evil (Isaiah 45:7)?

The usage of words can change the meaning of a text, and hence, our understanding.
The Hebrew word "ra" is translated calamity. or adversity.
Some use the word evil, but it is important to understand the usage here - very important, since today, evil means only one thing... morally bad.
God did bring calamity and adversity, but bringing calamity and adversity - evil, is not always morally bad.
It can at times be merciful and good.

For example, God brought calamity - evil - on Adam, for disobedience. In that sense creating evil or bringing calamity, not only on Adam, but all manking.
It can be illustrated this way.
Jailing a criminal brings calamity - evil, on him, but it can have adverse effects on his family, which may include small children - even a pregnant wife... etc.
The evil, was a just and right act, and may even have been an act of mercy to victims of the criminal.

Second Question (Part 1, 2, and 3): Is it reasonable to believe in a 'loving, merciful' God in light of the Holocaust and in light of every other inhumane atrocity and tragedy in human history? What about the rampant rate of murder, sexual assault, abuse, starvation, and deadly diseases and viruses? Are all of these examples that I provided compatible with the belief in a loving, merciful God?

Reasonableness involves having knowledge, and putting that knowledge to proper use.
So a reasonable person is one who considers all the facts, and is willing to be fair in their judgment of those facts.
So yes. Considering the fact that God does not approve the inhumane activities on earth, and he is not aloof toward it, it is reasonable to accept that God is loving and merciful.

Of course, people will have their views, which will never be satisfied, no matter how reasonable it is.
Take for example, the flood of Noah's day.
God acted against evil, and people accuse him of evil.
God's patience ii acting against evil is considered evil.
You get what I mean.

Please take all of these examples into consideration while deciding how you will answer the questions. Please be civil in your replies, and absolutely no name-calling or disparaging remarks about the people who believe differently than you.

I look forward to the replies. Thank you, in advance, for answering the questions.

Sgt. Pepper

Thank you.
I thought the thread was creative, but I think your 'approach' earns the OP a winner.

 

[rational experiences]

After the fact.

Man's built invented theories by a Human mind controlled machine operation.

Not written about in the bible.

Looks back gives naming to status natural that was never named. First in origin by anyone.

Any created pre owned body form owned no name was the human scientists warning.

If it owned no name in the first instance looking back naming it again as a man theist is fake.

Egotism self Idolator human scientist theist. Warnings all about humans thinking.

A fact of you being named the destroyer.

Pretty basic human advice taught by a loving kind caring spiritual healer.

Man said my human mother and her man baby as the BABY. Not as the adult scientist destroyer was correct advice.