Is it wrong if you want to know a partners or potential partner's biological/original gender?

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Then, I doubt every female that exists or has existed.

The point is if you couldn't tell the difference like our fictional Tom here, then you don't really know if you prefer female born females. If you slept with a transwoman would that bother you?

 

[Poeticus]

If you slept with a transwoman would that bother you?

Yes, it would. Because the fact that she was once a man would haunt me.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Yes, it would. Because the fact that she was once a man would haunt me.

Why would that haunt you? Are you homophobic?

 

[Alceste]

If you are worried?
That's the point. You shouldn't have to be worried in the first place about this kind of thing.
You should certainly expect the other person to tell you this sort of thing beforehand.



I have the opposite view.
I think it is childish to think only of yourself when you are engaging in any sort of personal relationship with someone else.
It is childish to clean your hands of any responsibility you might have on hurting someone else's feeling.
By undisclosing something that has a considerable chance of being a deal breaker, and you know it, you are showing a huge lack of empathy.

But the cis-woman isn't necessarily thinking only of herself. They both want casual hook-up sex, so they consented to casual hook-up sex. That's the end of the transaction as far as both are concerned. In the days when I was young and wild, I had casual hook-up sex with a few people I knew absolutely nothing about, who knew absolutely nothing about me. That was part of the fun. Your imagination fills in the blanks. It's very romantic, especially when you're young and idiotic. Nobody is ever more appealing than they are when you barely know a thing about them and can imagine them to be spectacular.

Over-disclosure completely ruins the magic of the moment. Yes, of course there are associated risks. If you are concerned about the risks, just don't do hook-up sex. Get to know a person first, talk to them a bit, and if it turns out they used to be a man, gracefully extricate yourself from the situation.

You're basically arguing that a guy should be able to pick up random women in the bar and invite them home for casual sex, and it's the responsibility of the women he picks up to disclose anything that might make him regret his own choices. It doesn't work that way. He is 100% responsible for his own behavior, feelings and decisions.

I wouldn't give her a pass either, if her feelings are hurt because he reacted in a bigoted way to the discovery of her birth gender. She is responsible for her own behavior, feelings and decisions too, including the decision to withhold her birth gender, increasing the possibility of his rejection or hostility after the fact, and any bad feelings she has resulting from his hostility.

My point is they both made choices that put them in this situation, and they are each responsible for their own feelings and choices. We can not be expected to take on responsibility for the feelings of people we barely know.

 

[Poeticus]

Why would that haunt you? Are you homophobic?

Definitely not. Brad Pitt is gorgeous. I just prefer to have a sexual relationship with a cis-female.

ps - Kinda of a straw-man by you to conclude I am a homophobe.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Definitely not. Brad Pitt is gorgeous. I just prefer to have a sexual relationship with a cis-female.

ps - Kinda of a straw-man by you to conclude I am a homophobe.

but why would it haunt you if you are not a bit homophobic?

 

[Poeticus]

but why would it haunt you if you are not a bit homophobic?

I just like cis-females, homie. Is that so wrong? And, I don't engage in one night stands because my sect of Hinduism is against it; so, if I dated a "female" long enough before we got "into bed", I am sure she would notify me that she was once a man. After which, I would let her know that I can't have sex with her. Would I still be friends with her? You betcha. Would we still go shopping together and party hardcore? Yup yup yup.

 

[Koldo]

But the cis-woman isn't necessarily thinking only of herself. They both want casual hook-up sex, so they consented to casual hook-up sex. That's the end of the transaction as far as both are concerned. In the days when I was young and wild, I had casual hook-up sex with a few people I knew absolutely nothing about, who knew absolutely nothing about me. That was part of the fun. Your imagination fills in the blanks. It's very romantic, especially when you're young and idiotic. Nobody is ever more appealing than they are when you barely know a thing about them and can imagine them to be spectacular.

Over-disclosure completely ruins the magic of the moment. Yes, of course there are associated risks. If you are concerned about the risks, just don't do hook-up sex. Get to know a person first, talk to them a bit, and if it turns out they used to be a man, gracefully extricate yourself from the situation.

The very same situation could still happen even if you have known the other person for a longer time period. The risks are still there, even though you have been talking as if they were not.

You're basically arguing that a guy should be able to pick up random women in the bar and invite them home for casual sex, and it's the responsibility of the women he picks up to disclose anything that might make him regret his own choices. It doesn't work that way. He is 100% responsible for his own behavior, feelings and decisions.

Not exactly what i said. She should disclose anything about herself that has a considerable chance, to her knowledge, of making him regret his own choice. If you happen to mislead someone on his choices, then you are also responsible for them.

My point is they both made choices that put them in this situation, and they are each responsible for their own feelings and choices. We can not be expected to take on responsibility for the feelings of people we barely know.

I disagree. We can and should be expected to take on responsibility, to a certain extent, for the feelings of people we barely know if we happen to get involved with them, even if it is just a one night stand.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I just like cis-females, homie. Is that so wrong? And, I don't engage in one night stands because my sect of Hinduism is against it; so, if I dated a "female" long enough before we got "into bed", I am sure she would notify me that she was once a man. After which, I would let her know that I can't have sex with her. Would I still be friends with her? You betcha. Would we still go shopping together and party hardcore? Yup yup yup.

I'm not talking about right or wrong. I would say if you were attracted to someone because they are physically a woman now and look like a woman and you can't tell the difference until they told you they were trans and that makes you feel really uncomfortable, that even if you like them you just can't be with them cause the thought makes you sick, I would say you are a bit homophobic yeah.

Just for the record if my partner of nearly 8 years told me he was trans now, I would be like "why didn't you tell me?" But I don't think I would even be angry to be honest, at the end of the day he definitely ain't a woman now, and I have been happy all this time so might as well just get over it.

 

[Poeticus]

...they told you they were trans and that makes you feel really uncomfortable, that even if you like them you just can't be with them cause the thought makes you sick, I would say you are a bit homophobic yeah.

The thought makes me sick? You cray-cray, homie. You misunderstood me. When I said that I would be haunted, I didn't mean I would be sickened by the thought. I meant that I would be haunted that she didn't notify me earlier and that I didn't ask.

Just for the record if my partner of nearly 8 years told me he was trans now, I would be like "why didn't you tell me?" But I don't think I would even be angry to be honest, at the end of the day he definitely ain't a woman now, and I have been happy all this time so might as well just get over it.

That's awesome.

 

[Penumbra]

Do you think it is unreasonable to assume you are a woman if you look like a woman?

Trans women are women, so it would be an accurate assumption if someone assumes her to be a woman.

Same with trans guys.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

The thought makes me sick? You cray-cray, homie. You misunderstood me. When I said that I would be haunted, I didn't mean I would be sickened by the thought. I meant that I would be haunted that she didn't notify me earlier and that I didn't ask.



That's awesome.

Oh right, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Poeticus]

Oh right, sorry for the misunderstanding.

No problem; we Hindus have transgendered people that we even venerate. I don't remember the name of their group, but whenever a child is born, the third person that sees the child has to be someone from this group - it's for good luck.

Also, Shikhandin from Mahabharata was a transgender (from female into male); she (he) was on the side of Lord Shri Krishna. Without her, Bhishma (a warrior from the opposing side) could not have been defeated in the great war.

 

[DallasApple]

Trans women are women, so it would be an accurate assumption if someone assumes her to be a woman.

Same with trans guys.

But you are negating the psychology of heterosexuals born their sex mind and body.Why is the only emphasis and compassion /understanding to be to the trans sexual?

I mean to call a heterosexual born with matching parts who doesn't "get " how it can be different a "bigot" and such????(not that you did) seems oddly of being intolerant of the "norm"..

 

[DallasApple]

I think it will be a HUGE mistake calling those who don't yet "get" trans".. bigots and other derogatory names.Its a "normal' reaction same as being trans.Shove those born with matching genitals to their identity under the rug as the bad guys?? Is NOT going to help with understanding.

 

[Penumbra]

But you are negating the psychology of heterosexuals born their sex mind and body.

The question was, "Do you think it is unreasonable to assume you are a woman if you look like a woman?"

I don't think that's unreasonable at all. But my answer is that trans women are women, and trans men are men. How is that negating anyone's psychology?

Why is the only emphasis and compassion /understanding to be to the trans sexual?

Probably because they're the ones that are one of the most stigmatized group of people on this planet, not everyone else.

I mean to call a heterosexual born with matching parts who doesn't "get " how it can be different a "bigot" and such????(not that you did) seems oddly of being intolerant of the "norm"..

Why are you bringing that up to me if I didn't use the word bigot?

Who in this thread used that word?

 

[Koldo]

Trans women are women, so it would be an accurate assumption if someone assumes her to be a woman.

Same with trans guys.

They are not simply women.
Plus, you just missed the point entirely.

 

[Poeticus]

What about gender identity disorder?

 

[Penumbra]

They are not simply women.

Why not?

Plus, you just missed the point entirely.

Or I didn't agree with the presupposition behind the point and therefore I didn't consider it valid, and addressed the presupposition instead.

 

[Titanic]

no, yes, no.