Is Jesus Christ God?

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus, the person you read about in the Bible, is not an average human. That is your... dunno, interpretation or rather re-interpretation of the text. Ie, you are essentially calling it fiction. What I am questioning is why, if people do not interpret the Bible from the theistic standpoint, are they creating fictional stories about the deities in other peoples religion.

I am not calling it fiction. I am sayng God chose Jesus to be His representative or talk on His behalf so that whomever believes in Christ is actually believing in His Father. It says Jesus is perfeect govin He and His Father share the same nature (same last name). Its not wrong to say Jesus is not God. There is so mch scripture that says He is not that my only conclusio is many christians dont want to associate with a human--even though God chose Him to share in His Kingdom. I dont get it logically just I get tbeir opinions about it. They are sound, I just dont see scripture correlating with some of tbeir beliefs.

 

[Desert Snake]

I am not calling it fiction. I am sayng God chose Jesus to be His representative or talk on His behalf so that whomever believes in Christ is actually believing in His Father. It says Jesus is perfeect govin He and His Father share the same nature (same last name). Its not wrong to say Jesus is not God. There is so mch scripture that says He is not that my only conclusio is many christians dont want to associate with a human--even though God chose Him to share in His Kingdom. I dont get it logically just I get tbeir opinions about it. They are sound, I just dont see scripture correlating with some of tbeir beliefs.

Lol that's fine. I don't think it affects my beliefs, I'm just presenting a logical argument. I'm not telling you what or who, if anything, to worship, etc. I think we have finished this dialogue, I know that I have.

 

[Milton Platt]

Is this an actual question?

Guess it is two questions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then you encounter other issues. The theology is monotheistic by rule, as in Judaism. This is one of the reasons why you can rule out certain scenarios. Now, consider that you are correct,/ ie Jesus isn't G-d/; by Scripture then, Jesus is a different Deity. Anything besides that or what I have presented, is non-Scriptural, and really just creating a new religion. One could hold your position if you scrap much of the Bible.

Jesus is not a deity. He is chosen by God, blessed by God, and given a mission from God, to speak on God's behald to bring people to His Fathee by denouncing false teachings of the Jews with whom still followed traditions but, according to Jesus, did not follow them in relation to His Father. (Exhales).

There is only one deity, one Son, and one Holy Spirit. Its not polytheism. I have a thread thst goes through all the scriptures point to Jesus being Gods Son. I also have a thread comparing both areguments with scriptures backing each. They both make sound points "and" one side is going by context (trinitarian) the other by literal interpretation. Anyone can dischipher whstever they want from context. But if a scripture says "this is false" how can one debate that its true?

That boggles my mind.

 

[Desert Snake]

Aren't all stories about deities fictional? Who gets to say what the correct interpretation is???

No, I don't believe so.
Interpretation is an individual thing, as is belief.

Guess it is two questions.

....

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Lol that's fine. I don't think it affects my beliefs, I'm just presenting a logical argument. I'm not telling you what or who, if anything, to worship, etc. I think we have finished this dialogue, I know that I have.

It just makes me confused. I never get passed this with someone who believefs Jesus is God. I dont know why. I have good discussions about other beliefs I disagree with. At least I understand them because they take time to explain their view without debate. I value that.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus is not a deity. He is chosen by God, blessed by God, and given a mission from God, to speak on God's behald to bring people to His Fathee by denouncing false teachings of the Jews with whom still followed traditions but, according to Jesus, did not follow them in relation to His Father. (Exhales).

There is only one deity, one Son, and one Holy Spirit. Its not polytheism. I have a thread thst goes through all the scriptures point to Jesus being Gods Son. I also have a thread comparing both areguments with scriptures backing each. They both make sound points "and" one side is going by context (trinitarian) the other by literal interpretation. Anyone can dischipher whstever they want from context. But if a scripture says "this is false" how can one debate that its true?

That boggles my mind.

What it comes down to, Scripturally, is what the Bible ''states''. If it contradicts, or seems to contradict, then clearly something is being interpreted incorrectly, or was added, etc. So, one would then have to rely on what can be ruled out, etc. You can have ''differing'' beliefs, but only to a point, because of the ''rules'' in place from the get go, so to speak. This is actually why they came up with the trinity ''doctrine'', in th first place.

 

[Desert Snake]

It just makes me confused. I never get passed this with someone who believefs Jesus is God. I dont know why. I have good discussions about other beliefs I disagree with. At least I understand them because they take time to explain their view without debate. I value that.

I have read some very good explanations concerning the trinity, on RF. Now, there are ''questions' that arise, because, anything from a church perspective is often biased or promoting a certain viewpoint etc. That being said, go to church websites and read what they have to say. Different denominations. That's my advice. I'm not going to get too involved in this, because I don't consider this argument to be my forte. I'm familiar with it to an extent, but not to the extent that im going to argue about it etc.

 

[Desert Snake]

//I would recommend going to non-Trinitarian Xian sites as well, for a range of perspective.

 

[Desert Snake]

@Carlita

If I were presenting a position on the nature of Jesus, it would be along the lines of the Oneness church concept, in order to not get slogged in church .....'talk'?


just my .02$

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ephesians 4:6There is One God father of all, and One Lord, Jesus CHrist.

Only one can be named Most High.

I had to look this up:

Ephesians 4:4-7

You are one body and one spirit, just as God also called you in one hope. 5There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6and one God and Father of all, who is over all, through all, and in all.

7God has given his grace to each one of us measured out by the gift that is given by Christ
-

Christ has given us a gift (Himself) and by doing so, this gift is from God.

Christ gift is the gift God gives. They both are one and the same in their purpose and they are not each other. If they were each other it would be more:


"7Christ, our Lord, has given his grace to each one of us measured out by the gift that is given by and as Himself." There would be no separation or two names for the same person.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus is not a deity. He is chosen by God, blessed by God, and given a mission from God, to speak on God's behald to bring people to His Fathee by denouncing false teachings of the Jews with whom still followed traditions but, according to Jesus, did not follow them in relation to His Father. (Exhales).

There is only one deity, one Son, and one Holy Spirit. Its not polytheism. I have a thread thst goes through all the scriptures point to Jesus being Gods Son. I also have a thread comparing both areguments with scriptures backing each. They both make sound points "and" one side is going by context (trinitarian) the other by literal interpretation. Anyone can dischipher whstever they want from context. But if a scripture says "this is false" how can one debate that its true?

That boggles my mind.

*shrugs*
It isn't my argument. I'm taking leave of this debate.

 

[Milton Platt]

No, I don't believe so.
Interpretation is an individual thing, as is belief.


....

So, okay, no real way to know if what your believe is true.

 

[Desert Snake]

So, okay, not real way to know if what your believe is true.

in the context of the thread, i'm just presenting an argument, it doesn't affect my beliefs regardless. Generally, sure, I suppose that's true. But in a practical sense, we decide our beliefs based on various things. So, likewise if you believe something, it may contradict what I believe. So, your statement is meaningless in a practical context. The problem with making outright statements as fact is problematic thusly, and generally better avoided. We're all just stating our beliefs.

 

[Milton Platt]

in the context of the thread, i'm just presenting an argument, it doesn't affect my beliefs regardless. Generally, sure, I suppose that's true. But in a practical sense, we decide our beliefs based on various things. So, likewise if you believe something, it may contradict what I believe. So, your statement is meaningless in a practical context. The problem with making outright statements as fact is problematic thusly, and generally better avoided. We're all just stating our beliefs.

In terms of the supernatural, you are right...everyone is just stating a belief rather than any knowledge.

 

[Desert Snake]

In terms of the supernatural, you are right...everyone is just stating a belief rather than any knowledge.

Ah....no , see that isn't what I said. Stating beliefs can be from any sort of knowledge, or probability, etc.

 

[Desert Snake]

In the religious context ''belief'', is not used as an antithesis to 'knowledge'. Hence what encompasses belief can be any range of verified or unverified ,etc., adherence. It's very broad in this usage.

 

[Milton Platt]

In the religious context ''belief'', is not used as an antithesis to 'knowledge'. Hence what encompasses belief can be any range of verified or unverified ,etc., adherence. It's very broad in this usage.

Sure, so are you basing your beliefs on verified or unverified information and what means of verification do you use? Is it based on anything that is testable and falsifiable?

 

[Desert Snake]

Sure, so are you basing your beliefs on verified or unverified information and what means of verification do you use? Is it based on anything that is testable and falsifiable?

I don't think that ''falsifiable'' is a relevant term in this context. The premise that something is inherently falsifiable is not how we form our beliefs. Its apples and oranges. something could be, proven false to the individual, I suppose; however that is more a matter of consequential circumstances arising either from an effort to examine our beliefs, or 'disprove'' them to ourselves, or simply change our minds. I believe that you are basing your standard of testing on a subjective group of ideas.
ie
''deity or this religious idea is not fact until proven
conversely someone else could say
''non-deity or non- religious idea is not proven

both people here have their own reasons for their already formed 'truths', by which they would compare the proposed beliefs to.

 

[NathanShepard8888]

I had to look this up:

Ephesians 4:4-7

You are one body and one spirit, just as God also called you in one hope. 5There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6and one God and Father of all, who is over all, through all, and in all.

7God has given his grace to each one of us measured out by the gift that is given by Christ
-

Christ has given us a gift (Himself) and by doing so, this gift is from God.

Christ gift is the gift God gives. They both are one and the same in their purpose and they are not each other. If they were each other it would be more:


"7Christ, our Lord, has given his grace to each one of us measured out by the gift that is given by and as Himself." There would be no separation or two names for the same person.

Matthew alone which say Jesus is the son of God
3.17
4.3
4.6
8.29
14.33
16.16
17.5
26.63
27.40
27.43
27.54

All of these give Jesus the honor of being called Son of God. 12 in one chapter.