Is Jesus GOD?

[outhouse]

What Jesus did was to fulfill the first part of GODs WORD by faithfully delivering the second part of GODs WORD to humanity.

sorry but i cant understand how you can say this.

jesus did not deliver the NT
jesus did not fulfill the OT as its messiah

the child would look like another universe

really pretty sure about what kind of children god would have lol, its almost like your calling god the big bang

 

[outhouse]

Hi! You raised a very interesting question. I can quote one Bible passage that proves (from Jesus' words) that he is not Almighty God. "do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son?" (John 10:36)
The other Scripture is Philippians 2:5, 6 (written by apostle Paul):Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6*who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."

you cant use scripture to rightfully judge jesus divinity, there is a matter of biblical fiction as well as not one author of the NT knew jesus. There are no real eye witnesses of jesus in the bible. most all authors are unknown. Most of Pauls letters are thought to be genuine copies though.

paul never met jesus to be able to make that call.

we dont even know the authors of john, there are most likely 3 different people who lived in the same community and it was written almost a hundred years after jesus death 85-95ad

 

[Zardoz]

Please note that this thread was moved from the Abrahamic DIR to Same Faith Debate which would make it for Abrahamic Faith members only.

 

[Zardoz]

Now that is IS in Debate...

the idea that Christ is God is not biblical, never was and never will be.

It was introduced to the early 3rd/4th century church by some teachers who were influenced by pagan roman ideas.,...it was actually a non christian who made the teaching officially a part of church theology. That was the Roman Emperor Constantine at the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E.

So in answer to your question, No. Jesus is not God...he is the 'son' of God as he said over and over. Jesus was a Jew and the God of the hebrew bible was named 'YWHY' otherwise known in english as 'Jehovah'. It was his God Jehovah who he worshiped and who he prayed to and it was Jehovah his father who resurrected him from the dead.

Bingo. Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[outhouse]

Now that is IS in Debate...
Bingo. Couldn't have said it any better.

then you would be sadly mistaken and have little knowledge of the real facts at hand.

constantine pulled bishops together at nicea to discus jesus divinity. constantine did not make the decision. he wanted to order 50 books from eusebius withh his new found faith after winning a battle with a vision of jesus predicting him as victor.

just search nicea wiki and you will see what topics were covered

 

[outhouse]

Please note that this thread was moved from the Abrahamic DIR to Same Faith Debate which would make it for Abrahamic Faith members only.

its in the debate section and fair game

 

[Zardoz]

its in the debate section and fair game

I'm afraid that is not the case for Same Faith debate sub-forum. Please read the two stickies in this forum.

 

[Pegg]

Thank you for updating me. Many things have been changed in the bible over the years I have always wondered what the bible originally read like. I agree with you that Catholics would try to take the verse out because it removes Jesus from their godhead. They replaced the Word of GOD with Jesus.

What bible or book are you referring to for the "real verse".

there are only 4 latin and greek manuscripts, one being the latin vulgate which is what the Douay and numerous other translations are made from, which contain the added words 'father son and holy ghost'

These words are found in The Clementine Vulgate which just happens to be the edition that the catholic church made its master text some time ago.

You'll find any translations made from the Greek texts by C. Tischendorf (eighth ed., 1872); Westcott and Hort (1881); Augustinus Merk (ninth ed., 1964); José María Bover (fifth ed., 1968); United Bible Societies (third ed., 1975); Nestle-Aland (26th ed., 1979) all have the correct verse in them. Our NWT bible is based on Westcott & Horts manuscript.

 

[MathewJames]

Pegg, where does the King James version fit in?

 

[jtartar]

Most of christians have belief that Jesus is GOD? i failed to understand if Jesus indeed is GOD, then how could he die? Can God die? Suppose, if he died for whatever reason, someone else there has to bring him back to life (reserruction). Is he God then?

Please through some light on this..

muzu,
To qualify as a Christian you MUST understand exactly who Jesus is, and his place in God's purpose.
The Holy Scriptures tell us in numerous places that Jesus is God's SON. John 3:16 is actually called The Gospel in Minature, because it tells succinctly who Jesus is and his purpose for coming to earth.
For a person to be the same person with another, would not both have the same knowledge?? Matt 24:36 says that Jesus does not know everything God knows.
Jesus said the things he taught were not his, but belong to the one who sent him, John 7:15,16. Jesus said that he could do nothing of his own initiative, but only what the Father taught him, John 5:30, 6:38-40.
Jesus said that the Father judges no one, but has given all judging to the son, John 5:22. If they were the same person, this would be a lie. Jesus neve sinned!!
To be the same would they not have to be the same age?? The Bible tells us that Jesus lives because of the Father, John 6:57, which means that God is older. The Bible even tells us that Jesus is the FIRST of all God's creations, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14.
To be the same, all power would be in both persons. Matt 20:23 says that some things a not in Jesus power to do, but only the Father.

If you were in dire straits, and you were praying, why would you pray to yourself. Isn't it a fact that everyone prays to someone greater than themselves??? Consider Matt 26:39-44, where Jesus was praying about his impending death. At Luke 22:44, where Luke was writing about the same time before Jesus death, he said that Jesus sweat became as blood falling to the ground. Would Jesus pray that hard for help, to himself?? Also at Heb 5:7-9, Paul writes about Jesus shedding tears and making outcries to the one who was able to help him. This to himself???
One time a man came up to Jesus and called Jesus a good teacher, Matt 19:16,17. Notice Jesus said, Why do you call meGood, No one is good but ONE, that is God. Does that sound like Jesus and God are the same???
Consider what Jesus said when Peter said, You are the Christ the son of the living God. Jesus said, Blessed you are Peter because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in the heavens.
Three times when Jesus was in earth, God spoke to him, from heaven, Matt 3:17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28. Jesus never decieved anyone, 1Pet 2:22.
Jesus even said that the Father is GREATER than I am, John 14:28.
Jesus said that He was ascending to His Father and his God. Same person???
Two places in the scriptures that seem to prove they are two people are at Dan 7:13,14, and Rev 5:5-7. In both these places God is sitting on His throne and Jesus comes in before Him. Definitely not two people.
I could go on and on, but to any reasonable person these scriptures should be enough to convince they that Jesus is not God.

 

[free spirit]

muzu,
To qualify as a Christian you MUST understand exactly who Jesus is, and his place in God's purpose.
The Holy Scriptures tell us in numerous places that Jesus is God's SON. John 3:16 is actually called The Gospel in Minature, because it tells succinctly who Jesus is and his purpose for coming to earth.
For a person to be the same person with another, would not both have the same knowledge?? Matt 24:36 says that Jesus does not know everything God knows.
Jesus said the things he taught were not his, but belong to the one who sent him, John 7:15,16. Jesus said that he could do nothing of his own initiative, but only what the Father taught him, John 5:30, 6:38-40.
Jesus said that the Father judges no one, but has given all judging to the son, John 5:22. If they were the same person, this would be a lie. Jesus neve sinned!!
To be the same would they not have to be the same age?? The Bible tells us that Jesus lives because of the Father, John 6:57, which means that God is older. The Bible even tells us that Jesus is the FIRST of all God's creations, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14.
To be the same, all power would be in both persons. Matt 20:23 says that some things a not in Jesus power to do, but only the Father.

If you were in dire straits, and you were praying, why would you pray to yourself. Isn't it a fact that everyone prays to someone greater than themselves??? Consider Matt 26:39-44, where Jesus was praying about his impending death. At Luke 22:44, where Luke was writing about the same time before Jesus death, he said that Jesus sweat became as blood falling to the ground. Would Jesus pray that hard for help, to himself?? Also at Heb 5:7-9, Paul writes about Jesus shedding tears and making outcries to the one who was able to help him. This to himself???
One time a man came up to Jesus and called Jesus a good teacher, Matt 19:16,17. Notice Jesus said, Why do you call meGood, No one is good but ONE, that is God. Does that sound like Jesus and God are the same???
Consider what Jesus said when Peter said, You are the Christ the son of the living God. Jesus said, Blessed you are Peter because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in the heavens.
Three times when Jesus was in earth, God spoke to him, from heaven, Matt 3:17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28. Jesus never decieved anyone, 1Pet 2:22.
Jesus even said that the Father is GREATER than I am, John 14:28.
Jesus said that He was ascending to His Father and his God. Same person???
Two places in the scriptures that seem to prove they are two people are at Dan 7:13,14, and Rev 5:5-7. In both these places God is sitting on His throne and Jesus comes in before Him. Definitely not two people.
I could go on and on, but to any reasonable person these scriptures should be enough to convince they that Jesus is not God.

Despite all of the above Jesus is God.

 

[free spirit]

Most of christians have belief that Jesus is GOD? i failed to understand if Jesus indeed is GOD, then how could he die? Can God die? Suppose, if he died for whatever reason, someone else there has to bring him back to life (reserruction). Is he God then?

Please through some light on this..

Yes Jesus is God: and Yes Jesus is also a man.
Some things are hard to explain because if we want to understand them we will have to do some spiritual gymnastic.

As we all know the Word of God is Jesus, He was in the beginning with God: therefore God and His word had an equal beginning if there ever was a beginning.
Also the word of God is the first born of all creation; Yes because until God spoke and revealed himself, His word was hidden in himself, just Like your unspoken thought. So God without His active thoughts is a dead God; as you know thought are compiled by words and the Word is Jesus. Therefore if there was no Word neither would be any God or life in the universe. Thus Jesus is God as John 1:1- 4. clearly points Him out to be.

Jesus is also a man, so watch this space.

 

[free spirit]

Most of christians have belief that Jesus is GOD? i failed to understand if Jesus indeed is GOD, then how could he die? Can God die? Suppose, if he died for whatever reason, someone else there has to bring him back to life (reserruction). Is he God then?

Please through some light on this..

As my previous post has explained that Jesus is the Word of God and therefore He is God's life, thus He is God.

And the Word was made flesh, that is to say that the Word of God give life to the seed of the woman therefore the word of God become a man in flesh and blood and like all man He was also subject to pain, hunger, anger, happiness, temptation and death, He was truely like all other men. Therefore while Jesus was in the flesh He was not God, this is obvious because God cannot be tempted or die.

However, He as a man died sinless therefore He fulfilled His mission, His mission was to fulfill the law and thus reverse what Adam did.

Now, Jesus the word that partook of the flesh of man and died sinless was glorified by God as we read in ACTS2:33, "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."

Jesus the man "having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit" in other words Jesus the man has inherited God.
But that is not all, because God loves humanity so much that we also can become heirs of God and joint heir with Christ if we believe and obey Him.

I hope you understand that Jesus or the Word is the beginning and the end, He is God blessed forever amen.

 

[Jacksnyte]

As my previous post has explained that Jesus is the Word of God and therefore He is God's life, thus He is God.

And the Word was made flesh, that is to say that the Word of God give life to the seed of the woman therefore the word of God become a man in flesh and blood and like all man He was also subject to pain, hunger, anger, happiness, temptation and death, He was truely like all other men. Therefore while Jesus was in the flesh He was not God, this is obvious because God cannot be tempted or die.

However, He as a man died sinless therefore He fulfilled His mission, His mission was to fulfill the law and thus reverse what Adam did.

Now, Jesus the word that partook of the flesh of man and died sinless was glorified by God as we read in ACTS2:33, "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."

Jesus the man "having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit" in other words Jesus the man has inherited God.
But that is not all, because God loves humanity so much that we also can become heirs of God and joint heir with Christ if we believe and obey Him.

I hope you understand that Jesus or the Word is the beginning and the end, He is God blessed forever amen.

You might want to clarify. Your use of christian jargon and catch phrases will confuse most non-christians(just sayin).

 

[free spirit]

You might want to clarify. Your use of christian jargon and catch phrases will confuse most non-christians(just sayin).

Thanks for the sugestion, however to explain it in detail would confuse the non-christian even more: It is sufficient to say that Jesus' sinless human soul Has inherited God, in other words God give himself to Jesus who is the Human form of himself, thus unifying God and humanity, which was the will of God from all eternity, halleluiah.

 

[tripleog2010]

He was Godliness....but he was not God

If Christ was not God then the gospels are a fraud. The bible clearly states that Christ is God. Assuming the writings are true, you are wrong.

 

[Jacksnyte]

If Christ was not God then the gospels are a fraud. The bible clearly states that Christ is God. Assuming the writings are true, you are wrong.

Take a closer look at the exact wording in the scripture in context with the culture and time period. You may find you are mistaken.

 

[muzu]

Yes Jesus is God: and Yes Jesus is also a man.
Some things are hard to explain because if we want to understand them we will have to do some spiritual gymnastic.

As we all know the Word of God is Jesus, He was in the beginning with God: therefore God and His word had an equal beginning if there ever was a beginning.
Also the word of God is the first born of all creation; Yes because until God spoke and revealed himself, His word was hidden in himself, just Like your unspoken thought. So God without His active thoughts is a dead God; as you know thought are compiled by words and the Word is Jesus. Therefore if there was no Word neither would be any God or life in the universe. Thus Jesus is God as John 1:1- 4. clearly points Him out to be.

Jesus is also a man, so watch this space.

John 1:1 -- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

Jesus didn't spoke it himself, did he? It was John writing this. If Jesus is god why didn't he ever say this?

As my previous post has explained that Jesus is the Word of God and therefore He is God's life, thus He is God.

And the Word was made flesh, that is to say that the Word of God give life to the seed of the woman therefore the word of God become a man in flesh and blood and like all man He was also subject to pain, hunger, anger, happiness, temptation and death, He was truely like all other men. Therefore while Jesus was in the flesh He was not God, this is obvious because God cannot be tempted or die.

However, He as a man died sinless therefore He fulfilled His mission, His mission was to fulfill the law and thus reverse what Adam did.

Now, Jesus the word that partook of the flesh of man and died sinless was glorified by God as we read in ACTS2:33, "Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."

Jesus the man "having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit" in other words Jesus the man has inherited God.
But that is not all, because God loves humanity so much that we also can become heirs of God and joint heir with Christ if we believe and obey Him.

I hope you understand that Jesus or the Word is the beginning and the end, He is God blessed forever amen.

If Jesus was the man inherited god then how can god possibly die? tell me. Is not god above death?

 

[Maury83]

If Jesus was God (and you say you gathered this frm the Bible, so you believe in the Bible) explain the following verses:

John 14:28

Matthew 7:21

Matthew 4:3

Matthew 4:10

John 17:3

John 20:17

John 3:16

These verses are undeniable, they are written in English and they leave no room for interpretation.

 

[free spirit]

John 1:1 -- In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

Yes according to John Jesus is God.

Jesus didn't spoke it himself, did he? It was John writing this. If Jesus is god why didn't he ever say this?

We read in John 8:23- 24, "And he was saying to them, 'You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM he you shall die in your sins."

If Jesus was the man inherited god then how can god possibly die? tell me. Is not god above death?

We read in Philippians 2:6-8. "Who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."