Is Jesus portrayed in the Gospels as Anti-Torah?

[IndigoChild5559]

Don't recall saying there was ? ..

You said:

"Jesus" .. aka "HeyZeus"

So you don't know the name of the God of Jesus

I know everything about the name of Jesus. I've been on these sort of message boards since before there even was a world wide web. I'm completely familiar with the Hebrew name Yehoshua, and its abbreviated version Yeshua. I'm completely familiar with the fact that when words are adopted into other languages, they are adjusted so as to have an easier pronunciation. I'm well aware that this is what happened when the gospel authors adjusted Yeshua to the Greek Iesous, how this in turn became the Latin Iesus, and how in English (when the sound J came into being) it became Jesus.

So don't treat me like an idiot.

.. presumably your god or are you on one of those pretend Christians

I'm not a Christian in any way shape size or form. Jesus is completely irrelevant to my Jewish faith. But I'm a stickler for accuracy, and when I see someone make a mistake that is easy to correct, I at least give it a try. If they are unwilling to correct, then that's on them.

Does the Trinity not state that Jesus is "The Father" ?

No, it doesn't. It teaches there is one God, one essence, manifested in three distinct persons. I personally don't accept Trinitarianism, but I know they teach that the Father is not the Son, the son is not the Father, etc., but that each is the fullness of God. It is a doctrine that is completely irrational, but what can I say? People sometimes hold irrational beliefs.

Perhaps you meant Modalism, not Trinitarianism. In Modalism, the Father, Son and HS are all the same person.

since the father is Zeus

See, when you say things this ridiculous, it tells me you are just trolling. That you don't actually believe this. That you are simply trying to yank my chain.

Which is why, in my previous post, I mentioned that I thought you were just poking Christians. This post does kind of confirm that. Because in real life, no one is actually stupid enough to really believe that the God of Christians and Jews is Zeus.

 

[Sargonski]

You said:

I know everything about the name of Jesus. I've been on these sort of message boards since before there even was a world wide web. I'm completely familiar with the Hebrew name Yehoshua, and its abbreviated version Yeshua. I'm completely familiar with the fact that when words are adopted into other languages, they are adjusted so as to have an easier pronunciation. I'm well aware that this is what happened when the gospel authors adjusted Yeshua to the Greek Iesous, how this in turn became the Latin Iesus, and how in English (when the sound J came into being) it became Jesus.

So don't treat me like an idiot.

Then stop acting as such ... failing to understand what you are reading. I am the one who came up with the name ... HeyZeus .. and I explained to you the various meanings one can attribute to my made up construct .. aside from the fact that if you sound out the name .. it is a latinized Pronunciation = Spanish Language .. how they say the name Jesus .. which is pronounced "HeyZeus"

Then you blather on continuing to completely not understand what was being stated .. making stuff up as you go .. and attributing to me .. aka straw-man fallacy .. followed buy idiotic accusations from ignorance.

"See, when you say things this ridiculous, it tells me you are just trolling"

What is ridiculous about Zeus being related to EL ? Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon .... one of whose many epithets is "The Father" .. and who is the Troll .. spewing strawman fallacy and numerous other unfounded accusations.

Who is "The Father" Jesus is referring to since you are an expert in Biblical Names ... what is the Name of that Father .. according to Modern Scholarship ... ?

 

[Coder]

Respectfully, it's true that the chief Roman god was "Jupiter", which means "father in the heavens (sky)". It is logical to see the use of this depiction of Jupiter in the "Our Father" prayer as a help to Romans to adapt to monotheism. However, in the creed the "true God" as Jewish people believe in, is specified and distinguished from the Greco-Roman gods, so there is no attempt to associate the true God with Jupiter and Zeus except as a parable to help polytheists worship the true God.

Nor am I saying that I think that this is the best way to teach a polytheist who believes in gods that have human-like forms, about Jewish monotheism. However, one can see the challenges involved.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Then stop acting as such ...

Again, failing to acknowledge that I've actually studied this, and that I provided the etymological lineage for you, and then resorting once again to a personal attack, means there is no mutual respect on which to build a discussion.

 

[Sargonski]

Again, failing to acknowledge that I've actually studied this, and that I provided the etymological lineage for you, and then resorting once again to a personal attack, means there is no mutual respect on which to build a discussion.

I told you the etymological lineage ?? EL - Chief Canaanite God .. Hebrew .. a branch of Canaanite language .. now why are you pretending not to have been schooled .. ..and why are you feeling attacked personally after running around calling other people trolls because you been schooled .. One should try to accept correction and learn from one's errors Brother Indic .. not lash out at the messenger .. trying to demonize the messenger .. branding him a Troll .. a sign of an unstable ruler if you ask me .. when start doing such things .. What do you think ?

 

[Coder]

I don't think that the Christian Bible authors wanted to depict Jesus as being in disagreement with the Torah. The Jewish Bible is included with the Christian Bible. The Jewish Bible is referenced in some places to convey that Jesus is messiah.

Jesus did teach about the spirit of the law vs. the letter. I think that the teaching itself is authentic from some teacher and it is ascribed to Jesus and may well be from Jesus. Is that anti-Torah? Isn't that a matter of interpretation of Torah. I also think that an unreasonable legalism that the Christian Bible seems to claim that Jewish leaders had, may be exaggerated. Many Jewish people that I know, agree with the concept that a lower law can be violated in order to serve a higher law. Also, the approach of strong disagreement that Jesus is depicted as having with Pharisees, I think is fabricated or exaggerated. These may have been an attempt to convince Jewish people that their leaders were untrustworthy etc., so that they would join Christianity. This may have also been to discredit them so that people would believe that Jesus is messiah and not listen to them.

 

[Muffled]

Is Jesus portrayed in the Gospels as Anti-Torah?

(Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah in First Coming was a follower of Moses in deeds as well as his teachings as his mother innocent Mary was, please, right?

Regards

God always does His own thing. Following Moses would have been beneath Him.

 

[wellwisher]

This can be resolved in Genesis, when Adam and Eve were in Eden, there was no need for law. Adam and Eve, were in a state of bliss and could follow their hearts and do anything they wanted since all was good. The only exception was they were told, by God, not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. That tree is associated with Satan. Knowledge of good and evil is law, while the snake in a tree symbolism, means law comes from Satan. God punishes Adam and Eve for accepting external law of Satan over their natural inner voice of the spirit; instinct and tree of life.

When Adam and Eve ate from the tree of law, which was Satan's tree, they lost paradise. Law was not God's first choice for humans. However, seeing they cannot undo what they did, they needed to evolve forward via the law, to its logical conclusion. Satan was chosen to become Lord of the Earth and look out for Adam and Eve and their descendants. The Torah, after the loss of paradise, was connected to a world controlled by Satan, and about law evolving, which was still knowledge of good and evil, from the same tree.

In Revelations, Satan is not thrown from Heaven until even later than the time of Jesus. This was a prophesy of John written decades after the life of Jesus. It implies that Satan was tolerated in Heaven, as the Lord of the Earth, since the time of the fall from paradise to the time Satan gets the boot. In a sense, law although still not optimized, was sanctioned by God, but mediated by Satan to human on earth. This explains the temper of the Old Testament God; Lord Satan. None has seen the Father except the Son.

Jesus as the son of God was not under law. He was a throw back to paradise; faith, before the fall. The term used anti-Torah, is a value judgement of good or evil based on the law. Good and Evil is under Satan. What Jesus taught; love and faith, was not from Satan or the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It was from the tree of life, that is still with God in paradise, with twelve types of fruit and leaves for healing the nations. Paradise is like mother nature who cares for all her critters and does not segregate them by rules and laws and then plays favorites and abuses the rest. That is law. That is not natural.

It is not clear whether the laws of the Old Testament, that were sanctioned by God and mediated by Satan, remain grandfathered in, after Satan is cast from Heaven. However, the symbolism of 1/3 the angels in Heaven, being banished along with Satan; Satan's Angels sanctioned by God, could mean that which was once sanctioned by God but mediated by Satan, follows with Satan; his Torah Angels cam with him. This could explain why the chosen people, from long ago, have a risky target on its backs, instead of a hand of divine protection. That would suggest Satan has already been given the boot, sometime in the past.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

God always does His own thing. Following Moses would have been beneath Him.

The simple way to say this is: God is the one to give the Law to Moses. Jesus was the Jew who followed that Law.