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Is Jesus the Son of God?

psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
adrianhindes said:
According to who?
The consensus amongst historians seems to be that it was't.
Josephus - Wikipedia


How about He was crucified and the earthquake didn't happen and the dead didn't literally rise from their graves? That would account for why such things were no mentioned by Josephus, make Jesus a real historic person, and account for metaphorical embellishments in the story.
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I do believe if he did exist that he was just a simply prophet which there was thousands at that time, and of course back then people were very superstitious, and all sorts of stories would have been circulated, but as I said, it doesn't interest me if he was a man or a story.

This link is also interesting. Josephus on Jesus | Forgery and Fraud? | Flavius Testimonium
 
Super Universe

Super Universe

Defender of God
adrianhindes said:
The Christians belief that Jesus is literally the Son of God. Is this possible? Is there a better way of considering this core Christian belief?
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Being the son of God is not really all that special. All human males who have normal brains that can accept the soul are son's of God. All women who have normal brains that can accept the soul are daughters of God.

The story of Mary being a virgin was a fabrication. The early Christians were outnumbered and wanted to win over the other Jews so they exaggerated some things.

You can't figure it all out by only reading the bible.
 
jaybird

jaybird

Member
psychoslice said:
For me Jesus was only a metaphor, he represented all of us, he was a self realized man who realized his Oneness with the Source of all, God. We are all One with the Source, as a mind body organism we believe we are separate from the Source, and so we have religions and their stories to bring us back to our true self, call that self the Christ, the Buddha, or whatever.
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John 17:21

that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
 
Neo Deist

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
This topic has been beat into the ground over the years. However...

There is evidence that Jesus existed as a person, but there is no evidence that he was divine, performed miracles, or was the Son of God by way of a virgin birth. The authors of the NT were all anonymous, 3rd party, and writing decades after the fact. None were an eyewitness to Jesus.

The whole virgin birth thing is a falsehood. The prophecy is based on Isaiah 7:14, but the actual Hebrew term that was used (almah) means a young maiden. The term betulah refers to a virgin, and it was not used in the prophecy. Besides, Judaism will tell you that the prophecy is not about a virgin and who better to know that than a Hebrew scholar, such as a rabbi? I, as a white American that speaks English, don't presume to tell the Chinese what their language and culture mean, so why should we NOT accept what Judaism tells us about the OT?

If Mary was truly a virgin when she gave birth, then that makes God, by way of the Holy Spirit, a rapist.

Lastly, Jesus failed to fulfill many of the prophecies that the OT stated the messiah would fulfill. The Christian answer is that those prophecies will be fulfilled in the second coming, but the OT never mentions a second coming; the messiah is supposed to get it right the first time around. One of the big issues with Jesus is his genealogy if he indeed came from the Virgin Mary; namely the fact that he can't trace his lineage back to King David since he has no biological father.

For the record, no I am not Jewish...not by far.
 
danieldemol

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
adrianhindes said:
In Christian scripture Mathew 1:18-25 it is written:
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about:...
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:

”The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”-- which means, “God with us.”

When Joseph awoke, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife.

But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

We need to be able make sense of this too. What else did the Baha'i writiing say to explain this?
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The Baha'i writings only paraphrase but do not re-explain the virgin birth of Christ, do you have an alternative metaphor that you wish to share?
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Neo Deist said:
Don't use Wikipedia as a source. Wiki can be edited by anyone with an account...and an agenda.
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Thats what I like about it. Feel free to share a source you consider more objective and informative.
 
Neo Deist

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
adrianhindes said:
Thats what I like about it. Feel free to share a source you consider more objective and informative.
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A lifelong commitment to studying theology and world religions, coupled with language, history and astronomy. Top it off with an objective mindset and looking at every side of the coin. Then come to your own educated and informed conclusions.
 
Super Universe

Super Universe

Defender of God
adrianhindes said:
Not many men can make that claim and I'm not aware that Jesus did either. Explaining with reason, how could he have possibly been the architect of the universe?
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I'm going to make a very long story very short. God formed Himself, then formed a son (not Jesus), the two of them formed another being Spirit. God created the multi-verse without form then fragmented Himself into the multi-verse to await the life forms that would come so He could give those life forms life.

The Son and Spirit then created other beings, like Jesus, who are architects, they can access God's brain, or computer program if you will, and use it to form a universe. Then the Son and Spirit formed very high level angels, to be overseers, or Judges, of those various parts of the universe.

Jesus designed this universe and inhabited it and then began forming other angels to assist Him. Once a certain amount of evolutionary progress had been made Jesus had to perform bestowal missions into various beings in the universe to learn what it was like to live as the various forms of life, angel and material beings.

That's why He came to the earth and lived as a human. Once He completed that final bestowal mission He was given ultimate authority over it, He became the King over it, and the door to heaven was opened and beings could then ascend into heaven.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
jaybird said:
John 17:21

that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Click to expand...
Yes we are ll One, Jesus was no more than we are, he was just a man who realized it, and we also can realize it, but don't tell anyone for they that are not realized will call you a blasphemer.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
danieldemol said:
The Baha'i writings only paraphrase but do not re-explain the virgin birth of Christ, do you have an alternative metaphor that you wish to share?
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How about this one:

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost...” Shoghi Effendi
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Neo Deist said:
A lifelong commitment to studying theology and world religions, coupled with language, history and astronomy. Top it off with an objective mindset and looking at every side of the coin. Then come to your own educated and informed conclusions.
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Great. Then lets hear your learned thoughts with references to scholarly works appropriately referenced.
 
InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
adrianhindes said:
The Christians belief that Jesus is literally the Son of God. Is this possible? Is there a better way of considering this core Christian belief?
Click to expand...
I consider that the Son of God has eternally existed as God and with God the Father, who then became flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ.
 
jaybird

jaybird

Member
psychoslice said:
Yes we are ll One, Jesus was no more than we are, he was just a man who realized it, and we also can realize it, but don't tell anyone for they that are not realized will call you a blasphemer.
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the problem with those that scream blaspheme is they dont see the damage they do by that. IMO Jesus was saying "follow me" "I am one of you" "if i can do it you can do it". He wanted us to follow this example. when you elevate Him to the Most High, you send your self right back to ground zero before He got here because who can follow that. thats to big a mountain for me to climb,
 
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