Is Jesus the Son of God?

[Dawnofhope]

Honestly, if it weren't true, then it would be a huge barrier and waste of my time. It's my conviction that it is true that motivates me to live my life based on the premise that Jesus is the Christ and Son of God.

Thank you for your response and I appreciate your sincerity and how strongly held your convictions. I have created this thread to explore, I would hope in a manner that does not disrespect anybody. Would you explain how you came to believe what you do?

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is a promotion of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Would you elaborate please?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Jesus/Yeshua is the Word of God given a flesh form, so the Words that come from the mouth of God is what Jesus/Yeshua is.

Thank you. Would you explain more simply so that some not acquainted with the Gospel of John could understand it?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not , only Brahma , but each soul who shows the children their father ( God) , becomes the nourishing mother , through whom the children recognize and return and belong to The Father and receive their inheritance of happiness, peace and the gardens.

Thank you. Are you able to explain how your concept of God may be similar or differ from Christians?

 

[Dawnofhope]

It also appears in the Jewish Bible, since Jesus and Mary were never Christians but Jews, it is easily solved from the usage in the Jewish Bible. Please

Thank you. So you can solve this from the Jewish Bible. I'd love to hear your solution.

 

[Tabu]

Thank you. Are you able to explain how your concept of God may be similar or differ from Christians?

Welcome,
Here is my thread where you could know more about BK concept of God,
BrahmaKumari : A Picture is worth a Thousand Words

I would love to elaborate if its not clear there.

 

[Hawk Flint]

Thank you. Would you explain more simply so that some not acquainted with the Gospel of John could understand it?

God has spoken with His mouth, giving instructions or commands to all creation. He said in the beginning, "Let there be light," and there was light (Genesis 1:3).

He spoke to the waters in Genesis 1:6, and what happened? They obeyed, doing what He said.

"By Yehowah's Word, the heavens were made" (Psalm 33:6).

"...He spoke, and it was done. He commanded, and it stood firm" (Psalm 33:9).

God's Word includes (but is not limited to) the Law of God. These Laws, and any other Words of God, are eternal ( Psalm 119:160, Isaiah 40:8).

The Words God speaks are truth (Psalm 119:160).

And the Laws God gives grant life, for the breaking of the Law of God is sin (Romans 7:7), and sin leads to death. When we are freed from Sin, we are freed from death, thus, the Law of God is freedom, "So I will obey your Law continually, forever and ever. I will walk in liberty, for I have sought your precepts" (Psalm 119:44-45). If we are free from Sin, it means that it's power over us has been broken, and we are seeking ways that are not sinful to live in. The Law of God has been provided for us: ways for us that will not condemn us.

The Law of God is the way of righteousness as well. Because the Law of God is God's very own ways, evidenced by the fact that the righteous are those who practice righteousness (1 John 3:7) and God's Law is righteous (Psalm 119:169) and God's Law is His very own ways (Hosea 14:9). "Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to Yehowah's Law" (Psalm 119:1, Hosea 14:9, 1 John 3:7). And there is stern discipline for those who "leave the way" (Proverbs 15:10). We know that God disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:7).

And the Law of God is light (Psalm 119:105).

Above we confirmed that the Law of God is the following: (1) The way (2) the truth (3) the life (4) the light. Now compare what has just been confirmed to this: "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), and "Jesus spoke to them, saying, 'I am the light of the world. He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life'" (John 8:12, also see John 1:4).

So the both the Law of God (and also any other Words of God) and Christ Jesus are the way, the truth, the life, and the light. Funny, they are both the Law of God: "the Word (including but not limited to the Law of God) became flesh, and dwelt amongst us" (John 1:14).

They (Jesus and the Law of God) are both eternal as well; they have always existed, always will exist, still do exist, and never change.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1).

In the beginning the Word wasn't made flesh, but it was still in existence. By the Word of God everything was made (John 1:3).

Now the Word of God is God not in the sense that it is the entity that we call God, but in nature it is God. The Word of God reveals God's nature, evidenced by the fact that Christ is the Word of God made flesh, and in Phillipians 2:6 Paul says that Christ is "in very nature God".

If that's not enough...

1: Both God and God's Torah are good:

Deuteronomy 32:4,"...A God of faithfulness who does no wrong..."

If He does no wrong, He is good. And Christ said,"There is one that is good."

Also Psalm 25:8,"Good and upright is the Lord..."

Compare to Romans 7:12, "the Torah indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good."

2: Both God and His Torah are spiritual:

John 4:24,"God is spirit..."

Compare this to Romans 7:14,"For we know that the Torah is spiritual..."

3: Both God and His Torah are light:

1 John 1:5,"...God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

Compare this to Psalm 119:105,"Your Word is a lamp to my feet, and a light for my path."

4: Both God and His Torah are perfect:

Matthew 5:48,"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

Compare this to Psalm 19:7,"The Lord's Torah is perfect..."

5: Both God and His Torah have a connection to love:

1 John 4:8,"He who doesn’t love doesn’t know God, for God is love."

Compare this to Romans 13:10,"...Love therefore is the fulfillment of the Torah."

6: Both God and His Torah are Holy:

1 Peter 1:16,"...it is written, 'You shall be holy; for I am holy.'"

Compare this to Romans 7:12,"Therefore the Torah indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good."

7: Both God and His Torah are eternal (try,"I am, I was, and will be."):

Genesis 21:33,"Abraham...called there on the name of the Lord, the Eternal God."

Compare this to Psalm 119:160,"All of your Words are truth. Every one of your righteous ordinances (Laws) are eternal."

8: Both God and His Torah are truth:

Psalm 31:5,"Into your hand I commend my spirit. You redeem me, O Lord, God of truth."

Compare this to Psalm 119:142,"Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness. Your Torah is truth."

9: Both God and His Torah are righteous:

Psalm 145:17,"The Lord is righteous in all his ways..."

Compare this to Psalm 119:172,"Let my tongue sing of your Word, for all your commandments are righteousness."

and Deuteronomy 4:8,"What great nation is there, that has statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this Torah, which I set before you today?"

The Word of God is God's nature, and Christ is the Word of God given a flesh form. Imagine breathing out a word, and grabbing the air that came out, and forming it into a human. That is your word made flesh. Words reveal what is in the heart, God's words reveal what is in His heart.

I hope this helps.
שלום

 

[Ben Avraham]

Would you elaborate please?

Replacement Theology is the attempt to vandalize the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach with the things in the gospel of Paul which was the NT. In other words, trying to replace Israel with the Church in the plans of HaShem.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I hope this helps.

That is a beautiful and profound exposition the Divine Reality of Christ. Thank you so much for the tie you have taken to share.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Replacement Theology is the attempt to vandalize the gospel of Jesus which was the Tanach with the things in the gospel of Paul which was the NT. In other words, trying to replace Israel with the Church in the plans of HaShem.

Thank you for clarifying your views. So Jesus is not the "Son of God" in any sense for you? I respect your views. Being aware of the theology of the Tanach, how much do you think Pauls theology reflected Greco-Roman culture, and how much Jewish theology?

 

[paarsurrey]

God has spoken with His mouth, giving instructions or commands to all creation. He said in the beginning, "Let there be light," and there was light (Genesis 1:3).

He spoke to the waters in Genesis 1:6, and what happened? They obeyed, doing what He said.

"By Yehowah's Word, the heavens were made" (Psalm 33:6).

"...He spoke, and it was done. He commanded, and it stood firm" (Psalm 33:9).

God's Word includes (but is not limited to) the Law of God. These Laws, and any other Words of God, are eternal ( Psalm 119:160, Isaiah 40:8).

The Words God speaks are truth (Psalm 119:160).

And the Laws God gives grant life, for the breaking of the Law of God is sin (Romans 7:7), and sin leads to death. When we are freed from Sin, we are freed from death, thus, the Law of God is freedom, "So I will obey your Law continually, forever and ever. I will walk in liberty, for I have sought your precepts" (Psalm 119:44-45). If we are free from Sin, it means that it's power over us has been broken, and we are seeking ways that are not sinful to live in. The Law of God has been provided for us: ways for us that will not condemn us.

The Law of God is the way of righteousness as well. Because the Law of God is God's very own ways, evidenced by the fact that the righteous are those who practice righteousness (1 John 3:7) and God's Law is righteous (Psalm 119:169) and God's Law is His very own ways (Hosea 14:9). "Blessed are those whose ways are blameless, who walk according to Yehowah's Law" (Psalm 119:1, Hosea 14:9, 1 John 3:7). And there is stern discipline for those who "leave the way" (Proverbs 15:10). We know that God disciplines His children (Hebrews 12:7).

And the Law of God is light (Psalm 119:105).

Above we confirmed that the Law of God is the following: (1) The way (2) the truth (3) the life (4) the light. Now compare what has just been confirmed to this: "I am the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), and "Jesus spoke to them, saying, 'I am the light of the world. He who follows me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the light of life'" (John 8:12, also see John 1:4).

So the both the Law of God (and also any other Words of God) and Christ Jesus are the way, the truth, the life, and the light. Funny, they are both the Law of God: "the Word (including but not limited to the Law of God) became flesh, and dwelt amongst us" (John 1:14).

They (Jesus and the Law of God) are both eternal as well; they have always existed, always will exist, still do exist, and never change.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1).

In the beginning the Word wasn't made flesh, but it was still in existence. By the Word of God everything was made (John 1:3).

Now the Word of God is God not in the sense that it is the entity that we call God, but in nature it is God. The Word of God reveals God's nature, evidenced by the fact that Christ is the Word of God made flesh, and in Phillipians 2:6 Paul says that Christ is "in very nature God".

If that's not enough...

1: Both God and God's Torah are good:

Deuteronomy 32:4,"...A God of faithfulness who does no wrong..."

If He does no wrong, He is good. And Christ said,"There is one that is good."

Also Psalm 25:8,"Good and upright is the Lord..."

Compare to Romans 7:12, "the Torah indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good."

2: Both God and His Torah are spiritual:

John 4:24,"God is spirit..."

Compare this to Romans 7:14,"For we know that the Torah is spiritual..."

3: Both God and His Torah are light:

1 John 1:5,"...God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

Compare this to Psalm 119:105,"Your Word is a lamp to my feet, and a light for my path."

4: Both God and His Torah are perfect:

Matthew 5:48,"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

Compare this to Psalm 19:7,"The Lord's Torah is perfect..."

5: Both God and His Torah have a connection to love:

1 John 4:8,"He who doesn’t love doesn’t know God, for God is love."

Compare this to Romans 13:10,"...Love therefore is the fulfillment of the Torah."

6: Both God and His Torah are Holy:

1 Peter 1:16,"...it is written, 'You shall be holy; for I am holy.'"

Compare this to Romans 7:12,"Therefore the Torah indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good."

7: Both God and His Torah are eternal (try,"I am, I was, and will be."):

Genesis 21:33,"Abraham...called there on the name of the Lord, the Eternal God."

Compare this to Psalm 119:160,"All of your Words are truth. Every one of your righteous ordinances (Laws) are eternal."

8: Both God and His Torah are truth:

Psalm 31:5,"Into your hand I commend my spirit. You redeem me, O Lord, God of truth."

Compare this to Psalm 119:142,"Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness. Your Torah is truth."

9: Both God and His Torah are righteous:

Psalm 145:17,"The Lord is righteous in all his ways..."

Compare this to Psalm 119:172,"Let my tongue sing of your Word, for all your commandments are righteousness."

and Deuteronomy 4:8,"What great nation is there, that has statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this Torah, which I set before you today?"

The Word of God is God's nature, and Christ is the Word of God given a flesh form. Imagine breathing out a word, and grabbing the air that came out, and forming it into a human. That is your word made flesh. Words reveal what is in the heart, God's words reveal what is in His heart.

I hope this helps.
שלום

But not even Mary was born then. How could the Christian-God could be there to command. Right? Please
Does one mean here YHVH (Yahweh), the Jewish-God? Please
Regards

 

[Ben Avraham]

Thank you for clarifying your views. So Jesus is not the "Son of God" in any sense for you? I respect your views. Being aware of the theology of the Tanach, how much do you think Pauls theology reflected Greco-Roman culture, and how much Jewish theology?

Not "in any sense!" Jesus was son of God but as part of Israel. HaShem said, "Israel is My son." (Exodus 4:22,23) Paul's theology reflected Greco-Roman culture by a lot. Paul was a former Hellenistic Jew and, it is only obvious that his theology had to reflect Hellenism. Now, for Jewish theology, the Pauline reflection was tried but distorted with Hellenism.

 

[Hawk Flint]

But not even Mary was born then. How could the Christian-God could be there to command. Right? Please
Does one mean here YHVH (Yahweh), the Jewish-God? Please
Regards

The "Christian" God and the "Jewish" God are one and the same. There is no "trinity" as far as I understand the NT, but that's a subject of some debate for another time. Just read what I posted as if there is no "trinity" because I don't believe in a "trinity", but that God is one, as the scriptures say.

Now God speaks, and the Words that He speaks are eternal, life, light etc., and Christ (Yeshua/Jesus) is those Words spoken manifested in the flesh. He is God in nature because God's nature is revealed to us by His Law (which is part of His Word), but not the actual entity that we know to be God.

In the beginning God used His Word to create everything, and by His Word everything came into being. Then, at the time of the New Testament, God took His Word and gave it a flesh form, thus, Christ (Yeshua/Jesus) was born. But before He was born He was still the Word of God, only He was not in a flesh form.

Hope this clarifies.

שלום

 

[Muffled]

The Christians belief that Jesus is literally the Son of God. Is this possible? Is there a better way of considering this core Christian belief?

I believe that depends on what you mean by literally. If you mean we believe what is written then He is the Son of God. If you believe it means that God became corporeal and mated with a female to have a son then we do not believe that. A similar notion that Jesus as God had a son, we also do not believe.

 

[Muffled]

No. God does not have a son.

I believe you may have a constrained or false notion about that.

 

[Muffled]

Why not? God can do anything. Why not have a son?

I believe I can tell you why I do not do this. It causes too much confusion.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

For me Jesus was only a metaphor, he represented all of us, he was a self realized man who realized his Oneness with the Source of all, God. We are all One with the Source, as a mind body organism we believe we are separate from the Source, and so we have religions and their stories to bring us back to our true self, call that self the Christ, the Buddha, or whatever.

I used to believe that before I spoke to him.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not "in any sense!" Jesus was son of God but as part of Israel. HaShem said, "Israel is My son." (Exodus 4:22,23) Paul's theology reflected Greco-Roman culture by a lot. Paul was a former Hellenistic Jew and, it is only obvious that his theology had to reflect Hellenism. Now, for Jewish theology, the Pauline reflection was tried but distorted with Hellenism.

So the son of God designation is highly significant in regards to Jewish theology but Paul had a theology that reflected Greco-Roman culture. Would the resurrection of Jesus be an example of that in your opinion? Any other examples you can think of?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I believe I can tell you why I do not do this. It causes too much confusion.

You may be right. On the other hand one way to properly examine ideas and beliefs is to use the Socratic method, play devil's advocate, and look at the extremes so are better able to see clearly.

Put another way:
“The shining spark of truth cometh forth only after the clash of differing opinions.”
– ‘Abdúl-Bahá

Thank you for contributing to this thread and I hope you continue to share your thoughts. You sound very sincere in your beliefs which I like.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The "Christian" God and the "Jewish" God are one and the same. There is no "trinity" as far as I understand the NT, but that's a subject of some debate for another time. Just read what I posted as if there is no "trinity" because I don't believe in a "trinity", but that God is one, as the scriptures say.

Thank you again. I feel there are problems with the Trinity Doctrine and plan to explore this in a new thread soon.