Is living a gay/lesbian lifestyle a problem with God?

[reddogs]

Many claim that the Bible has nothing against 'homosexuality' or being 'gay or lesbian', that in fact the words never appear in scriptures so thus its not a problem with God. Well lets check it out...

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Cr 7:2 Nevertheless,[to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Man with man is fornication!! Woman with woman is fornication!!
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

God loves sinners, God hates sin!!
Does Christ say that He forgives but we can continue sinning.....

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

I think you made one vital assumption. What does the Bible have to do with God?

 

[Valjean]

Not to mention, what is a gay lifestyle? How does it differ from a straight lifestyle? Are there only two lifestyles in the world?

 

[Quagmire]

***Thread moved to Scriptural Debates***
​

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I'll admit you can't get around the fornication deal if you believe the Bible. Fornication is the same biblically for everybody. I don't believe the Bible anyway though, so it's not like it effects my beliefs.

 

[Duck]

Many claim that the Bible has nothing against 'homosexuality' or being 'gay or lesbian', that in fact the words never appear in scriptures so thus its not a problem with God. Well lets check it out...

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Cr 7:2 Nevertheless,[to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Man with man is fornication!! Woman with woman is fornication!!
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

God loves sinners, God hates sin!!
Does Christ say that He forgives but we can continue sinning.....

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

As scripture tells us a sinner must give up sin to accept Christ and receive the gift of eternal life, so what does these verse say about whether Gay can receive eternal life, it seems to show that as any sinner as long as he is willing to give up his sin of homosexuality. Same as a liar as long as he gives up his lying, or a thief gives up stealing, or a murderer must give up murdering if wants to accept what Christ gives and expects to go to heaven!

a question: you quote from Leviticus, as many folks wishing to strip a group of people of secular (as in NOT RELIGIOUSLY BASED) rights often do, I acknowledge that you have the intestinal fortitude to ALSO quote the verse that condemns gays to death, but you also quote the Levitical prohibition against bestiality (Lev 18:23). Tell me, why do you quote that verse when your thread title is "Is living a gay/lesbian lifestyle a problem with God?" Do you equate two HUMAN beings having a same-sex relationship with beastiality? Really, gay sex is the equivalent to horsef*cking in your eyes?

Why is it that Christians feel it necessary to call for the execution of their neighbors for having same-sex relationships, but don't execute their own mouthy teenagers, as is ALSO required by the old testament?

I didn't notice this "Man with man is fornication!! Woman with woman is fornication!!" in the entire chapter 1 Corinithians 7, perhaps you like many other christians are making some crap up and adding to the bible to support your own bigotry?

I recently read an article, which I do not currently have an attribution for (so it is possible I am making it up much like your quote referenced immediately above), which was about a study conducted regarding the arousal levels of men who described themselves as heterosexual, with varying degrees of also self described homophobia. The participants in the study were shown various pictures of men and male-male sex acts, and the arousal levels were measured (they had a device attached to their genitals that measured the increase in blood flow and diameter of the penis). The self-described heterosexuals who were also the most (again self described) homophobic exhibited the highest levels of arousal when shown gay pornography. Interesting that, isn't it? Perhaps you should pause and reflect on this information prior to calling for my and your fellow human being's death?

 

[Green Kepi]

'Duck'...I did notice that 'reddogs' used some NT verses; the OT was written for "our learning", so I suppose the way it reads is trying to relay that 'any' sex outside of marriage is sin (according to the Scriptures). So...if I interpret sex outside of marriage a sin...that makes me "homophobic" or a "bigot"? I don't think so. If a state or country makes man-man/woman-woman legal marriages...hey...the judgment is left up to God. Who am I to get all worked up? God commanded me to fish (preach) from the ponds...not try to clean-up the ponds (that's God's/Jesus' job)!

 

[Duck]

'Duck'...I did notice that 'reddogs' used some NT verses; the OT was written for "our learning", so I suppose the way it reads is trying to relay that 'any' sex outside of marriage is sin (according to the Scriptures). So...if I interpret sex outside of marriage a sin...that makes me "homophobic" or a "bigot"? I don't think so. If a state or country makes man-man/woman-woman legal marriages...hey...the judgment is left up to God. Who am I to get all worked up? God commanded me to fish (preach) from the ponds...not try to clean-up the ponds (that's God's/Jesus' job)!

If 'reddogs' was trying to relay that any sex outside of marriage was 'sinful', why quote the verses specifically condemning me and mine to death? Where is the outrage against the sin of adultery? Which is mentioned by your Jesus many more times than anything relating to homosexuality?

I did not mean to imply that one who feels sex outside of marriage is wrong was a homophobe or bigot. I did mean to state that people who work to strip a group of others of their secular rights based on a religious text are bigots. If one does not feel attraction to the same sex, fine; if one feels that sex outside of marriage is wrong, fine; if one feels that same-sex attraction and activities are a one way ticket to roast in fire in the afterlife, fine; do not expect me to easily accept one's quoting verses from one's holy book that call for my death, while ignoring those verses that call for similar repercussions to one's own group. I have yet to hear any LGBT persons call for the right to marry in a church. Personally, I think that any self respecting LGBT person should avoid and abandon christianity, as its members persist in calling for the death of LGBT people.

One thing I have noticed about christians that oppose same-sex relationships (of any stripe), is that they are pretty quick to quote the Levitical prohibition on same-sex activities as the 'moral' code or whatnot, but pass off the other 'moral' code items in Leviticus as 'fulfilled' by Jesus. So which is it? Does the Levitical code apply to all or does it only apply to gays? I bet the latter.

As for the NT verses, Paul names a number of things that bar one from entering heaven. While I realize that this thread is specifically aimed at the lgbt community, and implies that one cannot enter into heaven at all if one is lgbt, where is the christian outrage and call for constitutional amendments against adultery, or gambling, or drunkeness, or divorce, or lying etc? Could it be that the christians need to have some group to say "well at least I'm not..." and scapegoat and ostracize? Just own up to it.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Perhaps we should examine this from a more moderate Christian stance. :yes: When you point out Leviticus do you also point out that Leviticus calls pork, shellfish, and wearing mixed fabrics an abomination as well? If not, you're a hypocrite. Secondly, you need to learn to read the Bible IN CONTEXT. Romans 1 is not saying that a person born gay is going against nature, it's saying that those who are truly straight, changing the natural use into what is against their nature. Nothing about people born gay there. Also, Corinthians is better translated homosexual prostitutes, or boy prostitutes, as it is believed Paul was addressing the Roman Pagans who had young boys in their temples for older men to commit pedestry with.

 

[Green Kepi]

Duck/Yosef1986 - good civilized points. I am not speaking for all who call themselves "Christian"; however, this is from the point of view of why I call myself "Just a Christian". I don't wear an additional 'label' or hyphenation...just Christian.

The Old Testament Laws were done away with when the veil was torn at Christ's death. All that not eating this and not eating that was done away with. The 613 Laws were not repeated except in the manner of nine out of ten (repeated in the New Covenant). This New Covenant has to do with the 'heart' (which back then they believed they thought with the heart and not the brain as we now know). It's more attitude now instead of the keeping of laws and doing the ceremonies.

Personally, I do not agree with the LGBT lifestyle...but...that's me. Again...like you implied...& (to me) the 'straight' who commits adultery is just as wrong - if it is a sin. But...I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the "born gay" belief...

I believe that sexual orientation is not constant for many individuals, but can change over time and suggests that at least part of sexual orientation is actually sexual preference. Like I might just want to commit adultery.

The attempts to find a "gay gene" have never identified any gene or gene product that is actually associated with homosexual orientation...studies have failed to confirm early suggestions of linkage of homosexuality to region Xq28 on the X chromosome. In other words, I just cannot 'buy' the born gay belief. However...please hear me out...I'm not condemning you or anyone else. That's not my job....

 

[Rainbow Mage]

The attempts to find a "gay gene" have never identified any gene or gene product that is actually associated with homosexual orientation...studies have failed to confirm early suggestions of linkage of homosexuality to region Xq28 on the X chromosome. In other words, I just cannot 'buy' the born gay belief. However...please hear me out...I'm not condemning you or anyone else. That's not my job....

Lack of a gay gene doesn't constitute that it's a choice. There could be several factors, and it still not be a choice.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If god has a problem with it, with me loving another woman, then I have a problem with god.

 

[Green Kepi]

If god has a problem with it, with me loving another woman, then I have a problem with god.

Don't think God has a problem with you or anyone "loving another woman"...its the sex part that He has a problem with....

 

[Autodidact]

Many claim that the Bible has nothing against 'homosexuality' or being 'gay or lesbian', that in fact the words never appear in scriptures so thus its not a problem with God. Well lets check it out...

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Cr 7:2 Nevertheless,[to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Man with man is fornication!! Woman with woman is fornication!!
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

God loves sinners, God hates sin!!
Does Christ say that He forgives but we can continue sinning.....

John 5:14
Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

As scripture tells us a sinner must give up sin to accept Christ and receive the gift of eternal life, so what does these verse say about whether Gay can receive eternal life, it seems to show that as any sinner as long as he is willing to give up his sin of homosexuality. Same as a liar as long as he gives up his lying, or a thief gives up stealing, or a murderer must give up murdering if wants to accept what Christ gives and expects to go to heaven!

O.K., nothing about lesbians in there, so apparently the Bible is silent on that point.

 

[Autodidact]

Don't think God has a problem with you or anyone "loving another woman"...its the sex part that He has a problem with....

Really? Wouldn't He prohibit it if He had a problem with it?
Now divorce--that He definitely has a problem with.
Yet Christians never start threads on it, never try to make it illegal for divorced people to remarry, never insist that divorce people not serve in the military. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Autodidact]

Duck/Yosef1986 - good civilized points. I am not speaking for all who call themselves "Christian"; however, this is from the point of view of why I call myself "Just a Christian". I don't wear an additional 'label' or hyphenation...just Christian.

The Old Testament Laws were done away with when the veil was torn at Christ's death. All that not eating this and not eating that was done away with. The 613 Laws were not repeated except in the manner of nine out of ten (repeated in the New Covenant). This New Covenant has to do with the 'heart' (which back then they believed they thought with the heart and not the brain as we now know). It's more attitude now instead of the keeping of laws and doing the ceremonies.

And yet the OP cites these same provisions you're saying were repealed. How odd.

Personally, I do not agree with the LGBT lifestyle...but...that's me. Again...like you implied...& (to me) the 'straight' who commits adultery is just as wrong - if it is a sin. But...I guess we just have to agree to disagree on the "born gay" belief...

I believe that sexual orientation is not constant for many individuals, but can change over time and suggests that at least part of sexual orientation is actually sexual preference. Like I might just want to commit adultery.

Well that's simple. You're wrong.

The attempts to find a "gay gene" have never identified any gene or gene product that is actually associated with homosexual orientation...studies have failed to confirm early suggestions of linkage of homosexuality to region Xq28 on the X chromosome. In other words, I just cannot 'buy' the born gay belief. However...please hear me out...I'm not condemning you or anyone else. That's not my job....

Well, try this thought experiment. Could you be attracted to another man and want to marry him and have sex with him?

 

[Green Kepi]

And yet the OP cites these same provisions you're saying were repealed. How odd.

Well that's simple. You're wrong.

Well, try this thought experiment. Could you be attracted to another man and want to marry him and have sex with him?

Fine...but what the heck is the OP?

So...if one doesn't agree with you...that person is wrong?

No.

Tell me...what's your points on all your statements besides "I'm wrong"?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Don't think God has a problem with you or anyone "loving another woman"...its the sex part that He has a problem with....

If he has a problem with me making physical love to my future wife, then I still have a problem with God.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Don't think God has a problem with you or anyone "loving another woman"...its the sex part that He has a problem with....

Based on the true context of the verses, which I pointed out, you don't have a case that God has a problem with any of it.

 

[Autodidact]

Fine...but what the heck is the OP?

Opening Post.

So...if one doesn't agree with you...that person is wrong?

*blushes modestly* Well, I do my best.

No, Green, it's just you. You're wrong. Dangerously wrong. The poor people who have paid charlatans thousands of dollars to pray away the gay, only to emerge still as gay as God made them, attest to how wrong you are.

No.

Well, neither can a gay man do that with a woman. That's why you're wrong.

Tell me...what's your points on all your statements besides "I'm wrong"?

No, that's pretty much it.