Is masturbating bad at all ?

[Tomef]

You depending on winner side history though. They who supported the killers of Hussain (a) and his chosen descendants (a).

Well, in a sense yes, since the account of Mohammed’s campaigns were written by the victors, his followers.

 

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Anyone who believes human trafficking origins in masturbation is incapable of meaningful thought.

Sources please, I want to see where you got these ideas from.

I said organ human trafficking occurs in Africa mostly not the west. But it's rational if you support the apparatus and feed that machine, it will lead to other things like organ stuff.

 

[Link]

Well, in a sense yes, since the account of Mohammed’s campaigns were written by the victors, his followers.

They are betrayers, and not followers. But let's call them followers. Remember most "followers" of Mohammad (s) were people who fought Mohammad (s) and fought his original followers when they were outnumbered in battles and only accepted Islam after the victory of it. Mauwiya's father fought the Nabi (s) till that point. Then of course, after victory supposedly his son becomes "a scribe of revelation" and fights Imam Ali (a) over love of Uthman. Then his grandsons kills the grandson of the Prophet (s).

Try to see things with some mental clarity. And Yazid did take the wives of Hussain (a) and the women in general at karbala as slaves that he and his forces marketed them.

Then when companions as in the original Ansar and Muhajareen fought Yazid, they too were defeated in Mecca and Madina and taken as slaves including the women.

So the "followers" took slaves of most of the "original of followers" who remained at this point.

How can such "followers" be reliable?

 

[Tomef]

They are betrayers, and not followers. But let's call them followers. Remember most "followers" of Mohammad (s) were people who fought Mohammad (s) and fought his original followers when they were outnumbered in battles and only accepted Islam after the victory of it. Mauwiya's father fought the Nabi (s) till that point. Then of course, after victory supposedly his son becomes "a scribe of revelation" and fights Imam Ali (a) over love of Uthman.

To be clear, your view is that Mohammed and his followers did not engage in mass killings, rape, and pedophilia (pedophilia as we would define it today, that is, from what I’ve read it is claimed that Mohammed’s child wife began her puberty at age 9)?

 

[Tomef]

I said organ human trafficking occurs in Africa mostly not the west. But it's rational if you support the apparatus and feed that machine, it will lead to other things like organ stuff.

Sources that led you to think that human trafficking somehow arises out of people playing with their private parts, I mean.

 

[Tomef]

I said organ human trafficking occurs in Africa mostly not the west. But it's rational if you support the apparatus and feed that machine, it will lead to other things like organ stuff.

‘originates’ (typo)

 

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To be clear, your view is that Mohammed and his followers did not engage in mass killings, rape, and pedophilia (pedophilia as we would define it today, that is, from what I’ve read it is claimed that Mohammed’s child wife began her puberty at age 9)?

Well, I'm not sure if Mohammad (s) took Aisha at 6 or not or as a child or not, but if he did, it would be akin to acts of Joseph (a) when he framed his brothers or Khidr (a) when he killed a child, or Lut (a) when he offered his daughters to his people. In short it's not permitted for us to do so by Quran and Sunnah, but somethings Mohammad (s) can do but Quran forbids his followers to do, and somethings might appear obligatory in Quran but Sunnah show it to be metaphor or not allowed.

Rape is not permitted. As for mass killings, yes, those occurred but on the battlefield. The one exception might be (it's in history and hadiths but not Quran) is when a tribe of Jews that betrayed Mohammad (s) in battlefield and opened the ways for them to attack Muslims when they were supposed to defend those places, and other things they did were executed. As Quran never talks about it directly, and it would be an important event to mention, I suspect it might have no historical truth.

 

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Sources that led you to think that human trafficking somehow arises out of people playing with their private parts, I mean.

This is one way to phrase it. But another way is when caprice is not in check, people will go beyond one limit of self-control to another, till such a demand for human trafficking occurs, which includes adult sex, but then because of the framework of the structure it extends to child sexual trafficking as well as in other places organ human trafficking.

This is why perhaps the Islamic solution, to keep eyes from gazing on forbidden, and keep self-control over sexual organs, is the best advice. It's not that such people would not enjoy sex or watching naked women dance, it's just it's better to control it till it's done in marriage in an honorable manner, and if impossible to marry and person runs out of patience and fears falling to curse, then muta becomes permissible.

Outside of that, it will lead to problems.

 

[Tomef]

Well, I'm not sure if Mohammad (s) took Aisha at 6 or not or as a child or not, but if he did, it would be akin to acts of Joseph (a) when he framed his brothers or Khidr (a) when he killed a child, or Lut (a) when he offered his daughters to his people.

I’m not sure how you get the idea of those being ‘akin’ to one another, they are quite different. However whataboutism is a dead end here, whether some other character in the Bible did something we would condemn today doesn’t address the issue.

Quoting gets tiresome but this is the bare minimum:

Surah 33:50: “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries and those whom thy right handpossesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war.”
Ibn Hisham recorded the words of Muhammad in Al Rod Al Anf, Volume 2, page 182:

“You see God will soon make you inherit their land, their treasures andmake you sleep with their women.”

Islamic histories are full of these references to women as things to be owned and used. You can find endless examples, and not much in the way of attempts to explain it away until recently.

 

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Sources that led you to think that human trafficking somehow arises out of people playing with their private parts, I mean.

You can do your own research. As I said there is a huge difference in the "academics" that are trying to make escorting legal, and the ones who are trying to end human trafficking or what natives say.

In short, there is no "peer review" agreement because the whole information about this is a battlefield in itself.

 

[Tomef]

This is one way to phrase it. But another way is when caprice is not in check, people will go beyond one limit of self-control to another, till such a demand for human trafficking occurs, which includes adult sex, but then because of the framework of the structure it extends to child sexual trafficking as well as in other places organ human trafficking.

This is why perhaps the Islamic solution, to keep eyes from gazing on forbidden, and keep self-control over sexual organs, is the best advice. It's not that such people would not enjoy sex or watching naked women dance, it's just it's better to control it till it's done in marriage in an honorable manner, and if impossible to marry and person runs out of patience and fears falling to curse, then muta becomes permissible.

Outside of that, it will lead to problems.

No. That kind of behaviour arises out of the ‘othering’ of people, the notion of people as lacking the same rights and agency. As has been the case with women in traditionally religious societies.

 

[Link]

I’m not sure how you get the idea of those being ‘akin’ to one another, they are quite different. However whataboutism is a dead end here, whether some other character in the Bible did something we would condemn today doesn’t address the issue.

Quoting gets tiresome but this is the bare minimum:

Surah 33:50: “O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries and those whom thy right handpossesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war.”
Ibn Hisham recorded the words of Muhammad in Al Rod Al Anf, Volume 2, page 182:

The original Arabic does not say "as spoils of war". Marriage is first form of malakat ayamanhim per 4:23 and second form of it is muta per 4:23.

 

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No. That kind of behaviour arises out of the ‘othering’ of people, the notion of people as lacking the same rights and agency. As has been the case with women in traditionally religious societies.

That's part of it, but not the only factor nor the main.

 

[Tomef]

You can do your own research.

You mentioned you had researched this and what you found convinced you that masturbation leads to human trafficking. So either you were making that up, or you can produce your sources.

 

[Tomef]

The original Arabic does not say "as spoils of war". Marriage is first form of malakat ayamanhim per 4:23 and second form of it is muta per 4:23.

‘Marriage’ lol. Do you mean as in the way prostitution is made legal is some Muslim countries as the punter is temporarily ‘married’ to the woman involved? What choice do you imagine women taken captive in war in ‘marrying’ their rapists?

 

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You mentioned you had researched this and what you found convinced you that masturbation leads to human trafficking. So either you were making that up, or you can produce your sources.

I can produce the sources. But you can also research this issue, and you will find it's a battlefield regarding "sources" that are reliable and not. Academics wanting to make escorting legal will easily dismiss sources I might rely on. And people trying to end escorts or natives will dismiss those academics.

So it's not simply quoting sources. The peer review of all this is that there is major disagreement and a lot of smoke over it.

I'm telling you quoting sources it not enough to find the truth of this issue. You got to even maybe meet a person who works to free human trafficking or talk Natives who are working to free people from it and expose it.

 

[Tomef]

I can produce the sources. But you can also research this issue, and you will find it's a battlefield regarding "sources" that are reliable and not. Academics wanting to make escorting legal will easily dismiss sources I might rely on. And people trying to end escorts or natives will dismiss those academics.

So it's not simply quoting sources. The peer review of all this is that there is major disagreement and a lot of smoke over it.

There’s major disagreement over whether masturbation leads to human trafficking? Where?

 

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There’s major disagreement over whether masturbation leads to human trafficking? Where?

If you are that interested, you can go do the research. You will find academics dismiss the views and you will find people supporting it. I'm saying there is a battle field regarding this because it's not a simple issue. And it can include politicians being part of what is hiding the truth of this - they being somewhat involved.

 

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‘Marriage’ lol. Do you mean as in the way prostitution is made legal is some Muslim countries as the punter is temporarily ‘married’ to the woman involved? What choice do you imagine women taken captive in war in ‘marrying’ their rapists?

The term war does not take place in that verse like I said.

 

[Tomef]

That's part of it, but not the only factor nor the main.

The inability to see another person as a person is most definitely a major factor, and, if it needs to be said, nothing to do with masturbation. Other major factors include state corruption, poverty, lack of opportunity, and so on, but not masturbation. The notion that it arises from people wanking is one of the daftest ideas I’ve ever come across. Please provide at least one source that you feel lends some credence to that idea.