Is Moses God?

[John D. Brey]

The number of types that portray Moses as God are difficult to ignore. In Exodus chapter 4 God tells Moses that Aaron with be his mouth, and he will be as God to Aaron. Whatever Moses say will be as though it's from God, so far as Aaron is concerned. In Exodus chapter 7, God tells Moses that he has made him (Moses) a God to Pharaoh, and Aaron is Moses' prophet.

But this is the tip of the iceberg. Multifarious scripture paint Moses as a human emblem of God the Father.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

The number of types that portray Moses as God are difficult to ignore. In Exodus chapter 4 God tells Moses that Aaron with be his mouth, and he will be as God to Aaron. Whatever Moses say will be as though it's from God, so far as Aaron is concerned. In Exodus chapter 7, God tells Moses that he has made him (Moses) a God to Pharaoh, and Aaron is Moses' prophet.

But this is the tip of the iceberg. Multifarious scripture paint Moses as a human emblem of God the Father.



John

. . . Before I forget, I want to point out another strange picture. Before sharing with us (Ex. 17:13) that Joshua discomfited Amalek (which sounds painful), we read a number of verses earlier that God will make his presence to dwell on a rock in Horeb. Moses is to take his rod, and strike the rock, and Israel will be given sustenance.

Then Amalek comes to fight Israel. So Moses goes up to a rock, with his ruler's scepter in hand, and makes his presence felt on the same darn rock that God made his presence felt. He lifts up his ruler's scepter in his right hand and Israel prevails. But when his arm gets tired, and falls, Amalek prevails.

So Aaron and Hur get on either side of Moses and lift his hands as though he were being crucified, voila, Israel triumphs, such that Joshua discomfits (KJV) Amalek.

Naturally, this makes me think of Isaiah 25:11. After Isaiah 25:7, speaks of destroying the enemies of God on a mountain, and the scepter of God "swallowing up" death, itself, as personified in Exodus by Amalek, we read in Isaiah 25:10 and 11, that God will rest on the mountain while Moab (a type of Amalek) will be trampled. "And he [God] will spread out his hands as a swimmer spreads out his hands to swim."


John

 

[psychoslice]

God supposedly spoke through Jesus also, but that doesn't mean he was God.

 

[John D. Brey]

God supposedly spoke through Jesus also, but that doesn't mean he was God.

Right. But we're not really talking about God talking through Moses (though he did). We're talking about Moses being emblematic of God. Jesus is not emblematic of God. He's emblematic of the rod in Moses' right hand. The ruler's scepter. The rod out of the root of Jesse. The root and offspring of David. God's weapon.



John

 

[psychoslice]

Right. But we're not really talking about God talking through Moses (though he did). We're talking about Moses being emblematic of God. Jesus is not emblematic of God. He's emblematic of the rod in Moses' right hand. The ruler's scepter. The rod out of the root of Jesse. The root and offspring of David. God's weapon.



John

Yes its all metaphoric that's for sure.

 

[ak.yonathan]

I don't think so. As God to Aaron does not mean that Moses is God the Father. We could say that we are as God to ants and that still would not make us omnipotent, now would it? When Moses made a rock release water in Numbers 20:2-13 he was scolded by God for not attributing the act to Him. I think that clearly shows that Moses is not God.

 

[`mud]

All that's in heaven is the throne and scepter
and a few angels and a trumpet,
or is that a bugle.
But the paths are made of solid gold,
and lutus is in the air.
~
Write great stories of the neverwill,
make yourself the 'God' of 'GODS'.
And then came Genesis, and stars and stuff.
~
Fairy tales for the kiddies,
and fear felt by most all,
what's to be feared then, after death ?
~
Silliness and more silliness !
~
'mud

 

[Raahim]

This is the first time I'm hearing such theory. Just because Moses ﷺ had higher authority on some people & they were his "slaves" doesn't in any way bind the idea that Moses ﷺ would be God despite doing much of good for his people.

 

[John D. Brey]

This is the first time I'm hearing such theory. Just because Moses ﷺ had higher authority on some people & they were his "slaves" doesn't in any way bind the idea that Moses ﷺ would be God despite doing much of good for his people.

. . . What I mean to put forward isn't that Moses is God in a simplistic or idolatrous sense. I'm still working within a framework developed over the last few threads, dealing primarily with Isaiah's prophesies. I'm convinced that Isaiah put forward the first full Gospel message and that he didn't do it through a time-warp where he was allowed to see the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth. My theory is that he developed a full and working Gospel based on typology associated with the Torah.

In that typology, Moses represents God the Father, while Nehushtan, the ruling scepter, represents the son of God, tiferet, who is at the Father's right hand; and who is the Father's means for defeating his enemies, establishing his Kingdom, such that the Son will rule over the Kingdom.

Since Judaism and Islam aren't necessarily into the same kind of strong exegesis that this typology is based on, the suggestion that Moses represents God might sound flippant, unimportant, or insincere. Nevertheless, within a systematic theological construct, the suggestion being proffered in this thread could be extremely fruitful.

For the fruit to blossom, we need to complete the triad. Moses is emblematic of the Father, Nehushtan is the Son at the right hand of the Father, and the law, represented by the fiery-ones, the brass serpent on the ruling scepter, represent the Holy Spirit, who is the link/mediator between the Father and the Son.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

All that's in heaven is the throne and scepter
and a few angels and a trumpet,
or is that a bugle.
But the paths are made of solid gold,
and lutus is in the air.
~
Write great stories of the neverwill,
make yourself the 'God' of 'GODS'.
And then came Genesis, and stars and stuff.
~
Fairy tales for the kiddies,
and fear felt by most all,
what's to be feared then, after death ?
~
Silliness and more silliness !
~
'mud

Ok


John

 

[John D. Brey]

I don't think so. As God to Aaron does not mean that Moses is God the Father. We could say that we are as God to ants and that still would not make us omnipotent, now would it? When Moses made a rock release water in Numbers 20:2-13 he was scolded by God for not attributing the act to Him. I think that clearly shows that Moses is not God.

. . . I'm not implying that Moses is God so much as I'm suggesting that he's a type of God the Father, while the ruling scepter in his right hand is symbolic of the Son of God, tiferet. I'm talking about systematic theology that takes it for granted that the Torah is full of types that are clues to important theological realities.



John

 

[John D. Brey]

Yes its all metaphoric that's for sure.

The point is that the metaphors are systematic. My theory is that Isaiah is the first person in human history to develop a fully functional Gospel message based not on, well, the Gospel, or the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth, but based on the types as they're carefully and painstakenly laid out in the Torah. Isaiah appears to be the first prophet who saw deep enough to systematize the types into a functional Gospel account.


John

 

[Raahim]

. . . What I mean to put forward isn't that Moses is God in a simplistic or idolatrous sense. I'm still working within a framework developed over the last few threads, dealing primarily with Isaiah's prophesies. I'm convinced that Isaiah put forward the first full Gospel message and that he didn't do it through a time-warp where he was allowed to see the life and times of Jesus of Nazareth. My theory is that he developed a full and working Gospel based on typology associated with the Torah.

In that typology, Moses represents God the Father, while Nehushtan, the ruling scepter, represents the son of God, tiferet, who is at the Father's right hand; and who is the Father's means for defeating his enemies, establishing his Kingdom, such that the Son will rule over the Kingdom.

Since Judaism and Islam aren't necessarily into the same kind of strong exegesis that this typology is based on, the suggestion that Moses represents God might sound flippant, unimportant, or insincere. Nevertheless, within a systematic theological construct, the suggestion being proffered in this thread could be extremely fruitful.

For the fruit to blossom, we need to complete the triad. Moses is emblematic of the Father, Nehushtan is the Son at the right hand of the Father, and the law, represented by the fiery-ones, the brass serpent on the ruling scepter, represent the Holy Spirit, who is the link/mediator between the Father and the Son.



John

Good luck with that framework, but what I kinda saw is that you're trying to model God as trinity in light of Judaism which doesn't really make sense. Unless you're trying to somehow sew this theory to Christianity which again kinda for me doesn't make sense because God, despite saying no one will ever see Him (when alive) He has urge to become flesh (multiple times). I'm trying really hard to understand what you want to achieve with this theory, this seems interesting but (to me) would make no sense at all.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

The number of types that portray Moses as God are difficult to ignore. In Exodus chapter 4 God tells Moses that Aaron with be his mouth, and he will be as God to Aaron. Whatever Moses say will be as though it's from God, so far as Aaron is concerned. In Exodus chapter 7, God tells Moses that he has made him (Moses) a God to Pharaoh, and Aaron is Moses' prophet.

But this is the tip of the iceberg. Multifarious scripture paint Moses as a human emblem of God the Father.



John

moses talked to God and did not say he was ...

 

[Politesse]

Prophets spoke for their deities in those days; their words were literally not considerde to belong to them.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

The number of types that portray Moses as God are difficult to ignore. In Exodus chapter 4 God tells Moses that Aaron with be his mouth, and he will be as God to Aaron. Whatever Moses say will be as though it's from God, so far as Aaron is concerned. In Exodus chapter 7, God tells Moses that he has made him (Moses) a God to Pharaoh, and Aaron is Moses' prophet.

But this is the tip of the iceberg. Multifarious scripture paint Moses as a human emblem of God the Father.



John

also if you just left the crap of pharaoh who was worshiped as God then the picture of people seeing it that way was based on some hundreds of years of being forced to view someone like that..
Aaron didn't expect people to view moses that way and people; they asked for a golden calf the first taste of freedom and poor first attempt at democracy(Aarons like I don't know what happened) (even after all those incredible miracles that God did and while moses is even telling them that it was God doing it.)

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Is how do you find God in democracy lol?
lol this reminds me: Now even as the election year arrives for us we can or can we say that either one is such.
Or the view is that they really were doing horrible things it wasn't just that they made an idol. And lol... Aarons like well it just pop-ed out the oven,moses don't be mad. (it was hand crafted...
To make some laugh...
Or like someone explained it to me as child.
Well hun, see moses came down the mountain and found them practicing arts and crafts and said kill them all.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Then he wasn't able to go into the promise land

 

[John D. Brey]

Good luck with that framework, but what I kinda saw is that you're trying to model God as trinity in light of Judaism which doesn't really make sense. Unless you're trying to somehow sew this theory to Christianity which again kinda for me doesn't make sense because God, despite saying no one will ever see Him (when alive) He has urge to become flesh (multiple times). I'm trying really hard to understand what you want to achieve with this theory, this seems interesting but (to me) would make no sense at all.

. . . All concepts must reverberate within the conceptual framework you possess. Naturally, it doesn't seem like Aaron or the Israelites thought of Moses as a type of God, or Nehushtan as emblematic of God's Son, at his right hand. But Isaiah clearly does. Isaiah clearly implies what's being implied in this thread.

When I first studied the statements in Isaiah, I imagined he had to have had some kind of futuristic vision of the early first century of the current era. But with further study I realized most of what he implies seems to center around Nehushtan, which he actually saw before it was destroyed by Hezekiah.

Working back with a study of Nehustan, it becomes apparent that the Gospel found in the early first century of the current era was woven pretty obviously into all the symbolism surrounding Moses and Nehushtan, which appears to be how Isaiah develops his Gospel?



John

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

. . . All concepts must reverberate within the conceptual framework you possess. Naturally, it doesn't seem like Aaron or the Israelites thought of Moses as a type of God, or Nehushtan as emblematic of God's Son, at his right hand. But Isaiah clearly does. Isaiah clearly implies what's being implied in this thread.

When I first studied the statements in Isaiah, I imagined he had to have had some kind of futuristic vision of the early first century of the current era. But with further study I realized most of what he implies seems to center around Nehushtan, which he actually saw before it was destroyed by Hezekiah.

Working back with a study of Nehustan, it becomes apparent that the Gospel found in the early first century of the current era was woven pretty obviously into all the symbolism surrounding Moses and Nehushtan, which appears to be how Isaiah develops his Gospel?



John

Nehushtan LOL I love it..