Is National Socialism 'Socialist'?

[Rival]

As the title asks.

By the way, I'd like to keep this to the ideology and not 'Well Doktor Mengele did this!"

Is the NS Ideology 'socialist'? Also let's avoid socialist = left wing, because it doesn't necessarily and this is far too much of an oversimplification of that word for me.

 

[Rival]

Do the national socialists advocate for democratic worker control over the means of production?
No?
/Thread

That would be communism imo, not socialism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It depends on how it's implemented.

Taxes could be seen that way.

Obamacare definitely.

Does national socialism include compulsory mandates? I think so.

 

[fantome profane]

No, communism is a stateless, classlesss society without hierarchy.
It is the end goal of many socialists, but the idea that socialism is liberalism came out of capitalist appropriation.

If you think taxes means socialism, maybe. But that's really not what we should be using the word socialism for.

Socialism is a very broad concept. Universal health care is socialism, public schooling is socialism, government old age pensions are socialism.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Socialism is a very broad concept. Universal health care is socialism, public schooling is socialism, government old age pensions are socialism.

Publicly funded roads are socialism.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

As the title asks.

By the way, I'd like to keep this to the ideology and not 'Well Doktor Mengele did this!"

Is the NS Ideology 'socialist'? Also let's avoid socialist = left wing, because it doesn't necessarily and this is far too much of an oversimplification of that word for me.

Nope. Just because it's got 'socialism' in the name doesn't mean it's that. Is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea actually democratic? Nope. The North is not.

 

[fantome profane]

Nope. Just because it's got 'socialism' in the name doesn't mean it's that. Is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea actually democratic? Nope. The North is not.

It actually could be argued that the Nazis had policies that were further down on the socialist spectrum that most other countries in Europe at that time. But so what? We shouldn't be confused by the fact that the Nazi party supported a well-funded old age government pension while they were torturing and killing millions of people. The fact that they had a few socialist policies does not make the Nazis good, and it does not make socialism bad.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, not really. NS had no real defined economic theory. They pretty much called themselves that in order to draw working class people away from the left-wing socialist and communist parties of the time. They did have more economically leftist-leaning members like the Strassers, but they got kicked out before the party came into power, one of them was exiled and the other was killed during the Night of the Long Knives. In practice, the Nazis were capitalist and their economy was based on plunder and slave labor. Far-right populist movements in general don't tend to have defined economic doctrines in general, especially in practice. It's mostly about rhetoric and appearances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism

 

[fantome profane]

Wow, good point. I now feel totally ashamed of that post. You really facepalmed me good.

 

[Flankerl]

Where is my popcorn, I love it when Anglos talk about this on the internet.

Long story short: National Socialists come in varied forms

There are economically left leaning ones: Think Strasser brothers, Göbbels and the left wing of the party
There are economically moderate ones who have other problems
There are economically right leaning ones: Think HItler and the right wing of the party

I don't know why but many many people can not understand it. They think Hitler equals National Socialism, it does not. He simply happened to win the fight over the party.




PS: And its already almost about US politics. Oh man Anglos.

 

[fantome profane]

Didn't most Communist governments also kills tens of millions of people?

What is your point?

 

[Rival]

Where is my popcorn, I love it when Anglos talk about this on the internet.

Long story short: National Socialists come in varied forms

There are economically left leaning ones: Think Strasser brothers, Göbbels and the left wing of the party
There are economically moderate ones who have other problems
There are economically right leaning ones: Think HItler and the right wing of the party

I don't know why but many many people can not understand it. They think Hitler equals National Socialism, it does not. He simply happened to win the fight over the party.




PS: And its already almost about US politics. Oh man Anglos.

This is why I said NS, not what the Nazis did.

 

[Laika]

As the title asks.

By the way, I'd like to keep this to the ideology and not 'Well Doktor Mengele did this!"

Is the NS Ideology 'socialist'? Also let's avoid socialist = left wing, because it doesn't necessarily and this is far too much of an oversimplification of that word for me.

National socialism is socialist in the broadest possible sense of being the socialism of the aryan race, in so far as the state actively intervenes in the economy but is distinct from other socialists because of racial ideology.

The Nazis would be careful to distinguish between Aryan socialism and Jewish socialism/Bolshevism. From the nazi perspective this is the decisive factor. Geobells did a speech in response to critics who said communism and nazism were similar which is worth reading.

http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/goeb58.htm

When it started it did include socialist elements in the party platform but as Hitler took over it shifted its focus on to racial ideology. Socialist aspects remained however in the party program but again racial ideology is dominant.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/1708-ps.asp

This is however in the same sense that democratic socialism is socialist in that nazis were advocates of capitalism, mixed economic systems, Military Keynesianism, regulation, support for monopolies as rationalisation of the economy, centralised economic planning, etc.

There is a fair amount of overlap in terms of the methods used in running the economy but in the Marxist use of the term "socialism" the nazis were capitalist because they represented the capitalist ruling class and not the working class. Hitler and the nazis themselves were pro-capitalist and it may be due to social Darwinist views that capitalism is an evolutionary mechanism for the survival of the fittest. thats a debate I avoid though (as libertarians drive me nuts with the everything is socialism card): you may want to ask Nietzsche as he has answered this question directly many times before?

 

[VioletVortex]

No. It's the medium between capitalism and socialism. I do not think of it as capitalist or socialist. It certainly has many socialistic elements, hence the name, but it's generally less socialistic than communism or any other from of socialism.