Is one religion better than the other.. and if so....

[URAVIP2ME]

I Am not talking about interpretations of the scriptures...
Rather the fundamental religion.
Jesus does talk violently many times and at times he doesn't say it is a bad thing...
Just a few I can come up with quickly...
Mathew:
5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
And many many more and much much worse than those...
of course you can say its all metaphorical...
But unfortunately, Many people intemperate it as a literal...
If I am to say: All those who are tall, their legs will be torn of their body...
Is this not a violent quote??
It can metaphorically be interpenetrated in many ways, but the written word in its literal from is very violent.
Besides that, Once you preach to someone that if he will not do your "bidding" or God's bidding of this argument sake, he will suffer harsh consequences, It is also a very violent thing to say!
ESPECIALLY if you don't really know that its the truth!

Wasn't Jesus using a metaphor at Matthew 5:29 ?______ That's what my high school English teacher called it.
So, Jesus was Not advocating self-mutilation, but stressing metaphorically being willing to cut out, so to speak, cut out of one's life anything that would be 'spiritually' morally harmful such as to stop stealing, fornicating,etc.- Proverbs 6:17-19
Like someone who needs an amputation to save his life that even though the action could be painful but would protect one's life.

Fire in scripture is often used to express destruction such as the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
The figurative haughty ' goats ' will, so to speak, weep and gnash their teeth - Matthew 25:31-33
They have been forewarned to ' repent ' if they do Not want to ' perish ' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9

Also, please keep in mind that 'biblical hell' is just the grave for the sleeping dead:
- Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; John 11:12-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"God'd spirit" is mentioned several times in the Tanakh, so it was very possible to sin against "God's spirit" prior to Jesus.

Good point ^ above ^. Thanks for your reply. - Psalms 5:4-6; Psalms 7:9-11; Psalms 11:5

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If he were neutral in the affairs in the world, why did he only wish to bring salvation to Jews and had to be guilt-tripped into helping gentiles?
And I don't recall him telling the centurion (one of those who had to spell it out for Jesus that he should help) that he should give up the soldier gig.
LOL. No, I guess demanding random people set up room and board and feed him and at least a dozen others isn't "charging".
IIRC, he taught that he was bringing a "sword" to destroy families, neighborhoods, etc. Metaphorical violence is still violence, or else he'd say he was here to bring peace and siblinghood to all. Also, IIRC, Revelation acts like world peace is a bad thing, which just goes to show just how preferable violence is in the bible.

First of all, it is people turning on the people who accept Jesus - Matthew 10:22
The literal warrior sword was never to be used by Christians - Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10
When people wanted to make Jesus political king (ruler) Jesus refused - John 6:15
Because of God' s promise to father Abraham was why Jesus was sent to the Jews - Luke 4:43
Then, the way was opened up for the Samaritans. Jesus spoke with the the Woman at the Well.
Finally, the way was opened up for the people of the gentile nations starting with that Italian centurion.
Jesus gave the assignment that includes being on an international scale with people of all nations - Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8
How is Revelation 22:2 (world peace) a bad thing ?
Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed- Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18. Blessed with the benefit of healing for all of earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the healing of earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

 

[Segev Moran]

Sure humans can be good, but Not in the 'absolute sense' as God is good

Can you explain how God is Good? Based on what you declare that God is good?

 

[Segev Moran]

Wasn't Jesus using a metaphor at Matthew 5:29 ?______ That's what my high school English teacher called it.

Here are some quotes that are less Metaphorical or even metaphorically, are still interpreted as actively violent...
8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
12:47 And that servant(Servant of God), which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

Yet the metaphorical argument is still troubling.. Why use such a violent metaphor? For what reason if not to plant fear in the hearts of his followers ?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

First of all, it is people turning on the people who accept Jesus

But rather than have a kneejerk reaction about it, did Jesus ever give you enough depth of thought to ask WHY they were so upset?

When people wanted to make Jesus political king (ruler) Jesus refused

Christianity sings about the "King of Kings" all the time, though. Nations are called "Christian", as if Jesus himself founded them.

Because of God' s promise to father Abraham was why Jesus was sent to the Jews

God's promise to Abraham was that he and Sarah were gonna have lots of babies or at least lots of descendants. How does Jesus fit into that other than just being born from that lineage?

Then, the way was opened up for the Samaritans. Jesus spoke with the the Woman at the Well.

She had to get onto him to get him to help, though. I don't recall Jesus ever having to be guilt-tripped into healing Jewish people.

Finally, the way was opened up for the people of the gentile nations starting with that Italian centurion.

What verses prove the centurion or the Samaritan woman joined the group?

How is Revelation 22:2 (world peace) a bad thing ?

I was under the impression the antichrist would bring about world peace and the author was none too pleased about it.

Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will fulfill God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed

How is Jesus necessary for that? Is God magically unable to bless people, even though He clearly does so throughout the bible, with or without Jesus?

Anyway, for those a little unclear about the violent preferences of Revelation:

6 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.

7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

I mean, that's just one chapter and already the author is itching to see a quarter of the world's population killed off.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

But rather than have a kneejerk reaction about it, did Jesus ever give you enough depth of thought to ask WHY they were so upset?
Christianity sings about the "King of Kings" all the time, though. Nations are called "Christian", as if Jesus himself founded them.
God's promise to Abraham was that he and Sarah were gonna have lots of babies or at least lots of descendants. How does Jesus fit into that other than just being born from that lineage?
She had to get onto him to get him to help, though. I don't recall Jesus ever having to be guilt-tripped into healing Jewish people.
What verses prove the centurion or the Samaritan woman joined the group?
I was under the impression the antichrist would bring about world peace and the author was none too pleased about it.
How is Jesus necessary for that? Is God magically unable to bless people, even though He clearly does so throughout the bible, with or without Jesus?
Anyway, for those a little unclear about the violent preferences of Revelation:
I mean, that's just one chapter and already the author is itching to see a quarter of the world's population killed off.

Please keep in mind to me the setting for Revelation is for our day or time frame - Revelation 1:10
In our time frame mankind has seen Not just 2 world wars but many smaller wars, etc. killing off the world's population.
One boy in high school history class point blank asked the teacher the purpose of wars.
The teachers reply (which was in harmony with what the boy's father told him) was that war is population control.
None of which was authorized by Jesus - Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10

Because of false religious teachings ( Jesus was exposing them - Matthew 15:9 ) is a reason for knee-jerk reactions.

You are Not alone in that many look for an Anti-christ person, but the ' biblical antichrist ' is simply anyone who is against Christ.
- 1 John 2:18,22; 1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7 - so there will be No such singular antichrist person.
There will be people ' they' saying, " Peace and Security " but that is a precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
-1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 - before Jesus as Prince of Peace ushers in global Peace on Earth among people of goodwill.

Jesus is necessary because none of us can resurrect oneself or another, but Jesus can and will - John 5:28; Revelation 1:18
Jesus is also necessary because none of us can stop sinning, so in order to be declared ' righteous' we need Jesus - Matthew 25:37; 1 John 1:7

Please notice God's promise to Abraham and Sarah at Genesis 21:12 B; Genesis 17:15-16; Genesis 17:19-21 that the promised seed - Genesis 3:15 - would come through only Isaac's line. Through Jesus ALL families of Earth will be blessed. ALL nations of Earth will be blessed.
- Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18. Blessed with the benefit of healing through Jesus - Revelation 22:2

There is only one nation that is called Christian is God's ' spiritual nation ' the Christian congregation - 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 2:5
People might label their nation as a Christian nation, but that is Not biblical. God's spiritual nation has No borders or boundaries and can't be found located on any map. Anyone in any nation can become part of God's spiritual nation the Christian congregation No matter where they live on Earth.

Centurion Cornelius was then baptized according to Acts of the Apostles 10:46-48
Also, please notice John 4:39 about the woman at the well.
As to if they endured to the end of their lives that is unknown, but seems likely - Matthew 24:13

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Can you explain how God is Good? Based on what you declare that God is good?

Why God is good -> Genesis 1:10-12; Genesis 1:18; Genesis 1:21; Genesis 1:25; Genesis 1:30-31; Psalms 115:16

In Scripture 'death' is our enemy - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
Life is good. 'Life' is our friend. So, although we can't stop falling short God offers us life. Everlasting life - John 3:16
Starting with Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth the majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

As the people of Noah's day were eating, drinking and marrying in a background of violence God came to rescue of righteous Noah & family.
So, with our day - Matthew 24:37 - the God of the Bible will come to righteous mankind's rescue - Matthew 25:31-33,37
The words from Jesus' mouth will execute the wicked for us - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Anyone who wants to bring ruin to earth ( literal and moral ) will be brought to ruin - Revelation 11:18 B.
Thus, only righteous people will fill the Earth - Matthew 5:5

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Here are some quotes that are less Metaphorical or even metaphorically, are still interpreted as actively violent...
8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
12:47 And that servant(Servant of God), which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Yet the metaphorical argument is still troubling.. Why use such a violent metaphor? For what reason if not to plant fear in the hearts of his followers ?

As far as Matthew 8:32 living under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law the Jews were Not to eat pork products.
The ' sword ' of Matthew 10:34-36 is because of family opposition to someone wanting to follow Jesus.- Matthew 10:22
Even some friends of Jesus opposed him at first - Mark 3:21; John 10:20-21
Yes, as the days of Noah when people were eating, drinking and marrying in a background of a violent world - Genesis 6:11 - so it is today.
Many people have a selfish distorted form of love as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 which is in sharp contrast to the definition of godly love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6; John 13:34-35.

The bad servant (of God) - Luke 12:45-47 is given figurative stripes proportionate to his responsibilities in Not carrying out his duties.
In other words, the greatest severity is assigned to the part of those hypocrites - Matthew 24:48-51. See also chapter 23 of Matthew.
They are false religious teachers who lay traps for the flock of God - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30

 

[Segev Moran]

Why God is good -> Genesis 1:10-12; Genesis 1:18; Genesis 1:21; Genesis 1:25; Genesis 1:30-31; Psalms 115:16

In Scripture 'death' is our enemy - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
Life is good. 'Life' is our friend. So, although we can't stop falling short God offers us life. Everlasting life - John 3:16
Starting with Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth the majority of mankind can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

As the people of Noah's day were eating, drinking and marrying in a background of violence God came to rescue of righteous Noah & family.
So, with our day - Matthew 24:37 - the God of the Bible will come to righteous mankind's rescue - Matthew 25:31-33,37
The words from Jesus' mouth will execute the wicked for us - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Anyone who wants to bring ruin to earth ( literal and moral ) will be brought to ruin - Revelation 11:18 B.
Thus, only righteous people will fill the Earth - Matthew 5:5

Okey..

1. If there is a book that says that someone was Good.. does not mean that he is Good! ( A lot of Germans wrote in their books that Hitler was the best thing that happened to Germany.. No.. he was NOT)
2. The genesis story Kind of contradicts the entire God is what decides about Good and Bad..
Let me explain:

And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

If God SAW that something is good, this means that God didn't DECIDE that it was Good...
Meaning, That God not Good itself, rather created something that he discovered as Good...
Now.. In order for God to realize that something is Good, There HAS to be something that is not Good..More than that.. How did god decide that the heavens and Earth are good?
has God created many other things that were not good??
If not, Why would anyone mention that what he did was Good.. And of course, One cannot really judge if he did something Good or not..
This hints for something beyond god that by which, it was determined whether or not the creation was a Good thing or Not... WHAT?????

No lets Assume God is Good..
Can a good person testify on himself that he is good??
If you'll ask a murderer if he did something good, naturally he will say he did (At least the psychos)
This does not mean he really is good..
The ones to testify if a person is good or not, are those impacted by his actions...
As i see it, The creation (In its biblical form) Was good.. until Humans arrived.. than God kinda blew it

 

[Segev Moran]

As far as Matthew 8:32 living under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law the Jews were Not to eat pork products.
The ' sword ' of Matthew 10:34-36 is because of family opposition to someone wanting to follow Jesus.- Matthew 10:22
Even some friends of Jesus opposed him at first - Mark 3:21; John 10:20-21
Yes, as the days of Noah when people were eating, drinking and marrying in a background of a violent world - Genesis 6:11 - so it is today.
Many people have a selfish distorted form of love as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 which is in sharp contrast to the definition of godly love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6; John 13:34-35.

The bad servant (of God) - Luke 12:45-47 is given figurative stripes proportionate to his responsibilities in Not carrying out his duties.
In other words, the greatest severity is assigned to the part of those hypocrites - Matthew 24:48-51. See also chapter 23 of Matthew.
They are false religious teachers who lay traps for the flock of God - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30

How do you decide when something is figurative and when it is literal?

 

[YmirGF]

How do you decide when something is figurative and when it is literal?

It's all context or mood, take your pick.

 

[Segev Moran]

It's all context or mood, take your pick.

Lol... which makes it exactly what it is.. a Human decision and nothing more.. nothing divine or godly about it

 

[Muffled]

Can you explain how God is Good? Based on what you declare that God is good?

I believe there are two reasons. 1. He has absolute power and the one with the power makes the rules and decides what is good. 2. He created everything the way He wanted it to be so He calls that good.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Segev Moran]

I believe there are two reasons. 1. He has absolute power and the one with the power makes the rules and decides what is good. 2. He created everything the way He wanted it to be so He calls that good.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Sorry buddy.. but in genesis it doesn't say "and God said/declared/announced/defined/decided that it was Good"...
It says he Saw it was good.. meaning that the Good was defined prior to God...
No what worries me even more than that.. is

the one with the power makes the rules and decides what is good.

REALLY????
I'm not even gonna debate that...
But have you seen the news lately?

He created everything the way He wanted it to be

How do you know? Does it say that God created it just the way he wanted?
It actually sounds like it was experimenting.. and then after completing it's creation, it saw it was good

 

[Muffled]

It's all context or mood, take your pick.

It can even be mixed. I believe when John received the Revelation of Jesus about the beast he was looking down at earth and seeing shapes. So when it says the head of a lion the country of Turkey actually looks like a head but the lion part is figurative and was an emblem of the Assyrian empire located generally in that are. The foot of a bear stands out as the Arabian peninsula and the bear was a symbol for the Medo-Persian empire which was generally in that area.

 

[Muffled]

Sorry buddy.. but in genesis it doesn't say "and God said/declared/announced/defined/decided that it was Good"...
It says he Saw it was good.. meaning that the Good was defined prior to God...
No what worries me even more than that.. is

REALLY????
I'm not even gonna debate that...
But have you seen the news lately?

How do you know? Does it say that God created it just the way he wanted?
It actually sounds like it was experimenting.. and then after completing it's creation, it saw it was good [/QUOTE]

I am your buddy now? I believe I hardly know you. I suppose it is just an expression.

I don't believe He was experimenting. For us seeing is believing. I believe for Him it means it was good in His eyes which is an expression since He doesn't have any in His spiritual form so it basically means that it came out the way He conceived it.

I believe it should because if He sees it as a universal disregard for His laws He can just erase it all and start over more or less what He did in Noah's day.

I believe when one has the power to do what he wants he gets what he wants. It is only good logic.

 

[Segev Moran]

I am your buddy now? I believe I hardly know you. I suppose it is just an expression.

Indeed it is

I don't believe He was experimenting. For us seeing is believing.

Who is Us? And seeing is believing is kinda weird argument when it comes to creationism...

I believe for Him it means it was good in His eyes which is an expression since He doesn't have any in His spiritual form so it basically means that it came out the way He conceived it.

I Can actually agree on that... So how based on that can we decide what is good or Bad?
I Assume a serial killer sees he's murdering just the way he conceived them.. This doesn't mean they are good.

I believe it should because if He sees it as a universal disregard for His laws He can just erase it all and start over more or less what He did in Noah's day.

So this is what makes It experimental.. If you need to start over, It means you failed no?
As you said, God flooded the earth because he saw it was Bad.. yet in the creation that was Good in it's eyes...

I believe when one has the power to do what he wants he gets what he wants. It is only good logic.

So dictatorship is Good?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Okey..
1. If there is a book that says that someone was Good.. does not mean that he is Good! ( A lot of Germans wrote in their books that Hitler was the best thing that happened to Germany.. No.. he was NOT)
2. The genesis story Kind of contradicts the entire God is what decides about Good and Bad..
Let me explain:
If God SAW that something is good, this means that God didn't DECIDE that it was Good...
Meaning, That God not Good itself, rather created something that he discovered as Good...
Now.. In order for God to realize that something is Good, There HAS to be something that is not Good..More than that.. How did god decide that the heavens and Earth are good?
has God created many other things that were not good??
If not, Why would anyone mention that what he did was Good.. And of course, One cannot really judge if he did something Good or not..
This hints for something beyond god that by which, it was determined whether or not the creation was a Good thing or Not... WHAT?????
No lets Assume God is Good..
Can a good person testify on himself that he is good??
If you'll ask a murderer if he did something good, naturally he will say he did (At least the psychos)
This does not mean he really is good..
The ones to testify if a person is good or not, are those impacted by his actions...
As i see it, The creation (In its biblical form) Was good.. until Humans arrived.. than God kinda blew it

Before humans arrived, Satan brought his (Not God's) influence to Eden
If God did Not grant us free-will choices then God could be called as being a bully.
What was Not ' good ' about the paradisical conditions in the Garden of Eden ?
Plenty to eat, drink, etc. along with having perfectly healthy bodies capable of living forever on Earth.
God told that eating from the forbidden tree was bad because it would lead to: death. Their life would come to an end.
So, mankind could have everlasting life on Earth as long as avoiding breaking God's law.
There was No restriction from eating from the tree of life.

Back in 2010 a German woman told me that under Hitler conditions were good.
Her daughter still praises the conditions she had under Hitler.
Today, a friend of hers still living in Germany said the Devil is running free in Germany.
Interesting, if I have it right, Hitler said if we (Germany) loose the war it will be the end of Germany.
They lost the war, and is what is going on in Germany today the end of Germany ?

When God saw what wrong humans did, immediately He took action which would bring about righteous conditions mentioned in His first prophecy of Genesis 3:15 that He would provide a promised ' seed ' (offspring from mankind who proved to be Jesus) that would bring an end to bad conditions caused by the first humans. In other words, Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us, and mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' according to Revelation 22:2 for the healing of earth's nations.
Even enemy death will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How do you decide when something is figurative and when it is literal?

Jesus recorded words at Matthew 13:34 tells us that without a parable ( illustration ) that he would Not speak to the crowds.
The people who had questions about his illustrations would hang around for the answers.

As far as the Revelation, which Jesus gave to the apostle John, it is recorded that Revelation is written in signs, so those 16 visions were recorded in very-vivid word pictures - Revelation 1:1. By comparing Revelation with other Bible books those 'signs' can be discerned today.
- Daniel 12:4; Daniel 12:9