Is philosophy an alternative to religion?

[Sha'irullah]

I of all people say that yes it is an alternative to religion. Philosophy embeds humans with modes of thinking and viewing the world much like what religion does with its usage of myths.
Philosophy can be used to explain everything about the world but of course science is the true winner in this.
Considering that philosophy branches into everything in existence it would only seem logical that philosophy alone can function as a replacement for religion when every religion in history incorporates philosophy and philosophy incorporates every religion and then more.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Brinne]

I don't see why it has to serve as a replacement persay. The two can cooperate perfectly well. The biggest two examples I can think of are Confucianism and Taosim; these two religions are built upon the philosophies of two men.

 

[Sunstone]

Given that we seem predisposed to at least some forms of religiosity by our DNA, I do not foresee an age in which everyone, or nearly everyone, has found an alternative to religion. I think, on the contrary, religion will be around in one form or another so long as we are Homo sapiens, and not some other species. But I do think religions can be made more benign. That is what I see as the great goal of humanity -- to make our religions benign.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Given that we seem predisposed to at least some forms of religiosity by our DNA, I do not foresee an age in which everyone, or nearly everyone, has found an alternative to religion. I think, on the contrary, religion will be around in one form or another so long as we are Homo sapiens, and not some other species. But I do think religions can be made more benign. That is what I see as the great goal of humanity -- to make our religions benign.

Oh no I never said philosophy would take over religion. I am just referring to philosophy being used by those who dislike religion, such as me. To be honest I do not even know what a religion is considering that they have no consistency.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I don't see why it has to serve as a replacement persay. The two can cooperate perfectly well. The biggest two examples I can think of are Confucianism and Taosim; these two religions are built upon the philosophies of two men.

But many people like me are not religious but want the benefits of having ordered thoughts.
Confucianism and Daoism are perfect examples of philosophy being applied as a religious replacement. Daoism though got a little too religious to some extant though.
The only true difference I see in religion apart from philosophy is ritual to be honest. Kong Fuzi's teachings are really nothing but philosophy in praxis.
Another difference as well is dogma, religion cannot be open to vast change unlike a philosophical idea since philosophical ideas can be refuted and become obsolete. Religions cannot succumb to change or they will become irrelevant and be nothing else but culture.

 

[Brinne]

But many people like me are not religious but want the benefits of having ordered thoughts.
Confucianism and Daoism are perfect examples of philosophy being applied as a religious replacement. Daoism though got a little too religious to some extant though.
The only true difference I see in religion apart from philosophy is ritual to be honest. Kong Fuzi's teachings are really nothing but philosophy in praxis.
Another difference as well is dogma, religion cannot be open to vast change unlike a philosophical idea since philosophical ideas can be refuted and become obsolete. Religions cannot succumb to change or they will become irrelevant and be nothing else but culture.

I'd argue that religions can change; that's pretty evident if you look at history. To say Christianity hasn't changed since its conception would be wrong.

Take a look at Shinto too. It has adapted and changed as the mainland religions (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, ect.) were imported into Japan. Shinto adopted the Seven Lucky Gods from Buddhism and a syncretic practice known as Shinto-Buddhism was created. This was only some of the smaller changes that Shinto undertook with the importation of Buddhism.

Religion and philosophy are cooperative yet not exclusive to each other, in my opinion. Though it'd be very hard to have a religion without an underlying philosophy.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'd argue that religions can change; that's pretty evident if you look at history. To say Christianity hasn't changed since its conception would be wrong.

Take a look at Shinto too. It has adapted and changed as the mainland religions (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, ect.) were imported into Japan. Shinto adopted the Seven Lucky Gods from Buddhism and a syncretic practice known as Shinto-Buddhism was created. This was only some of the smaller changes that Shinto undertook with the importation of Buddhism.

Religion and philosophy are cooperative yet not exclusive to each other, in my opinion. Though it'd be very hard to have a religion without an underlying philosophy.

I am very familiar with what the Japanese have done to Shintoism. It is typical for the Asians to do this since they are not fond o dogmatism. They do not give religion any special treatment and Japanese are not a very theistic people to begin with.
Non-theistic religion is really just an amalgamation of culture, ritual, philosophy and superstition

 

[Brinne]

I am very familiar with what the Japanese have done to Shintoism. It is typical for the Asians to do this since they are not fond o dogmatism. They do not give religion any special treatment and Japanese are not a very theistic people to begin with.
Non-theistic religion is really just an amalgamation of culture, ritual, philosophy and superstition

Ah actually you're mistaken. Religion was given a significant amount of special treatment in Japan; take a look at practically any of the royal courts. Priests were almost always present and Shinto ceremonies were considered paramount in politics and daily life. The royal family still participates in special ceremonies at Ise.

In addition to say they aren't theistic people to being with would be wrong as well. Shinto itself is indeed theistic, the belief in the kami in not the same as the Buddhist belief in Bodhisattvas as you might possibly be thinking.

Another thing to examine is the new religions in Japan, Tenrikyo and Konkokyo primarily. These religions are very obviously theistic religions that have a firm grasp of just what god is and what his message is and they've seen considerable growth and success within Japan. The Tenrikyo Church infact practically has entire city and university of adherents near its headquarters.

At first glance Japan may seem like a country of atheists/agnostics but I can tell you that it's a little more complicated than that. The reason many identify this way is because the label 'Shintoist' really doesn't exist in their culture.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Ah actually you're mistaken. Religion was given a significant amount of special treatment in Japan; take a look at practically any of the royal courts. Priests were almost always present and Shinto ceremonies were considered paramount in politics and daily life. The royal family still participates in special ceremonies at Ise.

You speak in the past tense and yet I am talking about the current. Some demographic analysis place theism from 15% or slightly more but the amount of non-theists vastly outways the theists in Japan to this very day.

I am not talking about religion, I am talking about theism.

In addition to say they aren't theistic people to being with would be wrong as well. Shinto itself is indeed theistic, the belief in the kami in not the same as the Buddhist belief in Bodhisattvas as you might possibly be thinking.

And? That is not how it is treated.

Another thing to examine is the new religions in Japan, Tenrikyo and Konkokyo primarily. These religions are very obviously theistic religions that have a firm grasp of just what god is and what his message is and they've seen considerable growth and success within Japan. The Tenrikyo Church infact practically has entire city and university of adherents near its headquarters.

Oh how I doubt this.

At first glance Japan may seem like a country of atheists/agnostics but I can tell you that it's a little more complicated than that. The reason many identify this way is because the label 'Shintoist' really doesn't exist in their culture.

I am familiar with this but this is irrelevant because the issue is theism not religion

 

[Brinne]

You speak in the past tense and yet I am talking about the current. Some demographic analysis place theism from 15% or slightly more but the amount of non-theists vastly outways the theists in Japan to this very day.

I am not talking about religion, I am talking about theism.



And? That is not how it is treated.



Oh how I doubt this.



I am familiar with this but this is irrelevant because the issue is theism not religion

Like I said; Japan is a very interesting case when it comes to theism/atheism. The reason being is that, like I said, a lot of Japanese don't label themselves as having a particular religion yet they adhere to a lot of the practices and the belief in the kami is still existent. I'm not saying there aren't atheists in Japan; they'res a lot of them. It's just not as black/white as you're interpreting it to be.

Actually, that is precisely how it was treated when I lived over there. The kami are viewed as deities much in the same way pagans view their deities. They are powerful beings but not infallible. I recommend maybe looking a little more into Shinto before you determine the nature of the kami.

I see no reason to doubt something that is in plain sight. Go ahead and look at some of the vlogs of people (particularly foreigners) riding around Tenri city. Tenri adherents everywhere, and buildings that are owned by the Tenri Church are marked with the logo. It's definitely worth digging around and learning about these new religions and the trends they carry with them.

Theism not religion, so are you trying to imply that Shinto is not a theistic religion? Sorry but I'm really not understanding what you're getting at with that last bit.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Like I said; Japan is a very interesting case when it comes to theism/atheism. The reason being is that, like I said, a lot of Japanese don't label themselves as having a particular religion yet they adhere to a lot of the practices and the belief in the kami is still existent. I'm not saying there aren't atheists in Japan; they'res a lot of them. It's just not as black/white as you're interpreting it to be.

I never made such claims

Actually, that is precisely how it was treated when I lived over there. The kami are viewed as deities much in the same way pagans view their deities. They are powerful beings but not infallible. I recommend maybe looking a little more into Shinto before you determine the nature of the kami.

I know quite a lot about Shintoism but you on the other hand no nothing about reading.

I see no reason to doubt something that is in plain sight. Go ahead and look at some of the vlogs of people (particularly foreigners) riding around Tenri city. Tenri adherents everywhere, and buildings that are owned by the Tenri Church are marked with the logo. It's definitely worth digging around and learning about these new religions and the trends they carry with them.

Theism not religion, so are you trying to imply that Shinto is not a theistic religion? Sorry but I'm really not understanding what you're getting at with that last bit.

Lying to protect your opinions is not admirable. Conversation ended

 

[Brinne]

I never made such claims

I know quite a lot about Shintoism but you on the other hand no nothing about reading.


Lying to protect your opinions is not admirable. Conversation ended

I'm sorry we couldn't discuss this like adults. I was quite enjoying the conversation. However, 'lying to protect my opinion' is not in the slightest what I am doing. I am not a member of the Tenri or Konko churches; Infact I disagree quite a bit with a lot of their central teachings. Lying to protect my opinions would be me saying something that boosts the image of Shinto, not Tenrikyo or Konkokyou (Which are far different from Shintoism)

This is what I myself experienced while I was living there. I hope you have a wonderful day and I'm sorry you had to take this to a personal level.

 

[Chakra]

But many people like me are not religious but want the benefits of having ordered thoughts.
Confucianism and Daoism are perfect examples of philosophy being applied as a religious replacement. Daoism though got a little too religious to some extant though.
The only true difference I see in religion apart from philosophy is ritual to be honest. Kong Fuzi's teachings are really nothing but philosophy in praxis.
Another difference as well is dogma, religion cannot be open to vast change unlike a philosophical idea since philosophical ideas can be refuted and become obsolete. Religions cannot succumb to change or they will become irrelevant and be nothing else but culture.

Not all religions. Vedantic Hinduism has been evolving for about 1000 years. You had one scholar after another challenging the previous ones.

Regards

 

[Sha'irullah]

Not all religions. Vedantic Hinduism has been evolving for about 1000 years. You had one scholar after another challenging the previous ones.

Regards

I know, which is why I praise Hinduism for that and especially the Mimamsa tradition. I cannot be any more clear when I say I make exceptions for any Dharmic influenced religion. I am very sure I said that in my 2nd post actually

 

[Chakra]

I am very familiar with what the Japanese have done to Shintoism. It is typical for the Asians to do this since they are not fond o dogmatism. They do not give religion any special treatment and Japanese are not a very theistic people to begin with.
Non-theistic religion is really just an amalgamation of culture, ritual, philosophy and superstition

I know, which is why I praise Hinduism for that and especially the Mimamsa tradition. I cannot be any more clear when I say I make exceptions for any Dharmic influenced religion. I am very sure I said that in my 2nd post actually

Dear Sir/Madam,
This is the only post where I could see you pointing to "Asian" religions. I was assuming that you were talking specifically about Shintoism, since that's what it seemed in the context. My apologies.
Regards

 

[Sha'irullah]

Dear Sir/Madam,
This is the only post where I could see you pointing to "Asian" religions. I was assuming that you were talking specifically about Shintoism, since that's what it seemed in the context. My apologies.
Regards

Call my Lady Sassy Pants . (Hahaha!)

I was sure I mentioned the word Dharmic somewhere, oh well not the first time I have made a mistake like that. Could have been in an entirely different thread.

But I am without a doubt heavily influenced by Hinduism and Sufism, no mistaking that.

 

[Chakra]

Call my Lady Sassy Pants . (Hahaha!)

I was sure I mentioned the word Dharmic somewhere, oh well not the first time I have made a mistake like that. Could have been in an entirely different thread.

But I am without a doubt heavily influenced by Hinduism and Sufism, no mistaking that.

Good to hear my friend!
Regards

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The way I see it, religion is a compilation of philosophies.

 

[Michael Colton]

I think the question is rather 'does religion need an alternative?' The removal of religion from one's life does not leave a hole that needs to be filled. It provides nothing that is not also provided by other avenues. It is an unnecessary extra.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I think the question is rather 'does religion need an alternative?' The removal of religion from one's life does not leave a hole that needs to be filled. It provides nothing that is not also provided by other avenues. It is an unnecessary extra.

That is the point, other things can do what religions does without the idiocy. We can help instead of praying, donate to foundations instead of the church, and seek a psychologist instead of a god. When it comes to understanding our world we can use science instead of myth.