Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

[Flankerl]

As you yourself admit, and rightly, 10th century BCE is only the supposed time of David and Solomon, it is not certain.

Your arguments therefore does not remain valid.

Regards

And now it gets funny.

In 400 BC/BCE there was no Kingdom of Israel or Judah or whatever. The whole area was part of the Achaemenid Persian Empire till Alexander the Great crushed them.

And as chain mail was not invented till 400 BC/BCE it doesn't really matter if David lived in 12 Billion BC/BCE, 1000 BC/BCE or 600 BC/BCE.


But i am sure you can present archaeological findings of chain mail in the area which can be dated to pre 400 BC/BCE. But then again it makes you wonder why the Achaemenid soldiers didn't use chain mail in their wars against the Greeks. That armour might have come in handy against the Greek Phalanx.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 76: Al-Dahr [3]

[76:21] And when thou seest thou wilt see there a bliss and a great kingdom.
[76:22] On them will be garments of fine green silk and thick brocade. And they will be made to wear bracelets of silver. And their Lord will give them to drink a pure beverage.
[76:23] ‘This is your reward, and your labour has been appreciated.’
[76:24] Surely, We have revealed unto thee the Qur’an piecemeal.
[76:25] So wait patiently for the judgment of thy Lord, and yield not to any one among them who is sinful or ungrateful.
[76:26] And remember the name of thy Lord morning and evening.
[76:27] And during the night prostrate thyself before Him, and extol His glory for a long part of the night.
[76:28] Verily, these people love the present life, and they neglect the hard day that isbefore them.
[76:29] We have created them and strengthened their make; and when We will, We can replace them by others like them.
[76:30] Verily, this is a Reminder. So whoever wishes, may take a way unto his Lord.
[76:31] And you exercise your will because Allah has so willed. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
[76:32] He causes whom He pleases to enter His mercy, and for the wrongdoers He has prepared a painful punishment.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.

Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

Regards

 

[Harikrish]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 76: Al-Dahr [3]

[76:21] And when thou seest thou wilt see there a bliss and a great kingdom.
[76:22] On them will be garments of fine green silk and thick brocade. And they will be made to wear bracelets of silver. And their Lord will give them to drink a pure beverage.
[76:23] ‘This is your reward, and your labour has been appreciated.’
[76:24] Surely, We have revealed unto thee the Qur’an piecemeal.
[76:25] So wait patiently for the judgment of thy Lord, and yield not to any one among them who is sinful or ungrateful.
[76:26] And remember the name of thy Lord morning and evening.
[76:27] And during the night prostrate thyself before Him, and extol His glory for a long part of the night.
[76:28] Verily, these people love the present life, and they neglect the hard day that isbefore them.
[76:29] We have created them and strengthened their make; and when We will, We can replace them by others like them.
[76:30] Verily, this is a Reminder. So whoever wishes, may take a way unto his Lord.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.

Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

Regards

The prophet mentions all the prophets from the Bible. His source was the bible. All the details were available to the people 600 years before his arrival. But there are other superfluous inclusions in the Quran that come directly from Mohammad's escape to the cave when he imagined hearing voices which he recited before the scribes.

There is nothing original in Mohammad's recitations except the parts were he justified his actions like marrying several women and even a 6 year old minor he married. Appears the jinn in the cave had some role in the prophets distortion of the Quran.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Flying around on a winged horse is original.... oh, wait.

 

[Harikrish]

Flying around on a winged horse is original.... oh, wait.

It is incorrect to say the Quran was only copied from the Torah, Bible. The Quran is full other mythical beliefs that were circulating during the prophets time. The prophet was illiterate and therefore could not verify the veracity of those stories. But in the cave alone with himself he could indulge his fantasies which he did and one can see it splashed across the Quran.

 

[gnostic]

10th century BCE, the supposed time of David and Solomon.

As you yourself admit, and rightly, 10th century BCE is only the supposed time of David and Solomon, it is not certain.

Your arguments therefore does not remain valid.

You are being ignorant, paarsurrey. And yor biased is showing too.

I may not believe in the bible, or the Quran for that matter, and I may not believe that David or Solomon exist, but I am more than willing to seek to understand any text that i read, as works of literature, if not for personal religious belief or faith.

I used the word "supposed", because I am very doubtful that David and Solomon had ever lived. So the dates of their reigns

Are you willing to the same? I think not, because you have already demonstrate your ignorance as plain as day.

You have the tendencies to quote wiki a lot, and yet I find that you don't understand what you have read. That seemed to be the extend of your knowledge, you copy-and-paste stuff you don't read what you quote, nor understand what you have read.

Have you ever read 1 & 2 Samuel and 1 & 2 Kings?

In these 4 books, there are list of kings, which would you give clues (that if you even bother to read them), that narrated the lives of 3 early kings, plus the kings of 2 kingdoms that had split after Solomon's death, all the way to fall of the Kingdom of Judah and destruction of Jerusalem and its temple, in 587 BCE (586). In these texts, are the name of each king (including David and Solomon) and how long they have reign.

I may not believe in the details about the kings, but the fall of Jerusalem, to the Neo-Babylonians, is historically real and true.

Using only the kings of Judah, I can calculate backward of when the kings had reigned, all the way to David.

I have done my calculations, so you can see for yourself. Go to Dark Mirrors of Heaven, Timeline of the Israelite Kingdoms.

According to 1 Kings 2:11, David had reigned for 40 years, which according to my calculation, would date it to 1010 BCE to 970 BCE. So that woul put David in 10th century BCE.

The Quran can't help me because in terms of details, it is very spotty, and only name some kings, so it couldn't me.

When do you think David had reigned?

As to chain mail, have you bother to read wiki article that I've given you in my last reply?

If you don't, then you really have no business talking to me about the origin iron chain mail.

 

[gnostic]

And now it gets funny.

In 400 BC/BCE there was no Kingdom of Israel or Judah or whatever. The whole area was part of the Achaemenid Persian Empire till Alexander the Great crushed them.

And as chain mail was not invented till 400 BC/BCE it doesn't really matter if David lived in 12 Billion BC/BCE, 1000 BC/BCE or 600 BC/BCE.


But i am sure you can present archaeological findings of chain mail in the area which can be dated to pre 400 BC/BCE. But then again it makes you wonder why the Achaemenid soldiers didn't use chain mail in their wars against the Greeks. That armour might have come in handy against the Greek Phalanx.

I hoped that paarsurrey is not seriously suggesting that David and Solomon lived in the 4th century BCE. He can't be that ignorant, is he?

Because that's the only way that paarsurrey can fit David in the Qur'an with the coat of chain mail.

 

[Flankerl]

I hoped that paarsurrey is not seriously suggesting that David and Solomon lived in the 4th century BCE. He can't be that ignorant, is he?

Because that's the only way that paarsurrey can fit David in the Qur'an with the coat of chain mail.

I would disagree.

Even IF there was a Jewish Kingdom in 400 BCE whose Kings were David and Salomon the chain mail was still in Gaul with the whole Mediterranean in between.

Granted there were Greek colonies around Marseille but that's still crazy.
If the Greek and Phonecian merchants had gotten their hand on chain mail or even better a few Gauls who could produce them they would sell these smiths to the highest bidder. And a Kingdom of Israel/Judah is not high on that list.

Obviously this technology would have gone to the rich Greek city states/Kingdoms Carthage or the pretty big obvious choice with lots of Gold.

 

[paarsurrey]

Quran does not claim to be a text book of History or weaponry/armory. Quran Teachings and commandment of Quran remain unaffected whether the Israeli characters existed or did not exist.

Quran got everything from the original source of G-d.

I quote here from Torah:

5. And a helmet of copper was on his head, and he was wearing a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of copper.
6. And greaves of copper were on his legs, and a copper javelin was between his shoulders.

Shmuel I - Chapter 17 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible


Regards

 

[jonathan180iq]

Quran does not claim to be a text book of History or weaponry/armory. Quran Teachings and commandment of Quran remain unaffected whether the Israeli characters existed or did not exist.

:yes:

I think we're getting somewhere!

 

[Harikrish]

The Bible characters were very real to Mohammad. He mentioned Abraham, Moses , Jesus and even claimed to have met them during his ascension. Without using the ancient prophets who came before him, Mohammad would make no sense claiming to be the last prophet. Oddly all the prophets before him came from the Bible. What an original idea?

 

[McBell]

Response: Proof of firsthand evidence is not simply saying you have it. If that was the case then according to your own logic, you don't have any because "I say so". Thus your logic is invalid and fails as firsthand evidence of that you can out wrestle 5 people by yourself, thus debunking the silly notion that Muhammad used force to get people to follow him and conquer an entire nation.

you really need to take a course or three in logic.
You keep using the word, but your usage shows you have no idea what it means.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 75 Al-Qiyamah: [1]

[75:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[75:2] Nay! I call to witness the Day of Resurrection.
[75:3] And I do call to witness the selfaccusing soul, that the Day of Judgment is a certainty.
[75:4] Does man think that We shall not assemble his bones?
[75:5] Yea, We have the power to restore his very finger-tips.
[75:6] But man desires to continue to send forth evil deeds in front of him.
[75:7] He asks, ‘When will be the Day of Resurrection?’
[75:8] When the eye is dazzled,
[75:9] And the moon is eclipsed,
[75:10] And the sun and the moon are brought together,

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.

Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

Regards

 

[McBell]

Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

bold empty claim

 

[jonathan180iq]

Copy-paste copy-paste

Regards

You're becoming quite irrelevant to your own thread. Have considered just joining the conversation instead of yelling at the wall?

 

[RAYYAN]

I didn't read the whole thread, but this is what We know and We believe about the Quran
1. It is the word of God
2. not copied from any book, but it is very similar to the OT because after all, it is one God and the same message
3. The first Quran as a book was made 12 years after the death of the Prophet PBUH and We still have that book as original
4. The Quran was written on leather, bones,....etc. in the life of the Prophet. and the first book was copied from those writings

 

[McBell]

I didn't read the whole thread, but this is what We know and We believe about the Quran
1. It is the word of God
2. not copied from any book, but it is very similar to the OT because after all, it is one God and the same message
3. The first Quran as a book was made 12 years after the death of the Prophet PBUH and We still have that book as original
4. The Quran was written on leather, bones,....etc. in the life of the Prophet. and the first book was copied from those writings

How do you know the surviving version of the Koran is the original one?

 

[Harikrish]

I didn't read the whole thread, but this is what We know and We believe about the Quran
1. It is the word of God
2. not copied from any book, but it is very similar to the OT because after all, it is one God and the same message
3. The first Quran as a book was made 12 years after the death of the Prophet PBUH and We still have that book as original
4. The Quran was written on leather, bones,....etc. in the life of the Prophet. and the first book was copied from those writings

But there are many mistakes in the Quran when recalling the facts of the Bible and the prophets such as events and relationships etc.

 

[paarsurrey]

But there are many mistakes in the Quran when recalling the facts of the Bible and the prophets such as events and relationships etc.

Not a single one.
Have you read the Quran from cover to cover and you have noticed naturally something? That could be discussed.

Regards

 

[Sabour]

How do you know the surviving version of the Koran is the original one?

For one to ask such a question, he must believe that there is an original one in the first place.

Do you believe that there was a prophet who lived name Muhammad peace be upon him and that he received the koran through revelations?