Is rebirth good or a bad thing ?

[Spice]

We have started this thread by assuming that somehow our personality can survive death - which makes no logical sense. Of course, there will only follow assumptions of the same quality. E.g. assuming there are multiple "spiritual realms".

In my opinion: No, your personality will not. Your collective subconscious will be matched up to another body, mind, and circumstance that creates a new personality that will add to the collective subconscious in your spiritual evolution.

In example: Hitler's apparent spiritual weaknesses revolved around narcissistic arrogance of superior racism. There's no indication he turned a new leaf in the life we know him from, so it's probable at some point in time his collective subconscious will have to live the life of one or more of his so-called subhumans, who are in close proximity to others with a similar attitude to his Hitler personality. He will feel the suffering he directly caused. His subconscious will collect that lesson in some degree and will move on to another stage of spiritual evolution.

 

[Twilight Hue]

....He will feel the suffering he directly caused. His subconscious will collect that lesson in some degree and will move on to another stage of spiritual evolution.

I never liked that type of reasoning.

It implies those who bear suffering and in pain actually deserve their lot in life.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I am 100% certain that Baha'u'llah was the promised return of Christ.
You are free to believe whatever you want to believe as we all are.
Our beliefs will never change reality, whatever it is.

90% of the world does not know who Bahaullah was. So, it is very doubtful he was the Christ come in 'his glory'.

You are absolutely right 'Our beliefs will never change reality, whatever it is.' But reality will be revealed to you when the real Christ appears, because 100% of the world will be aware of it when he does.

 

[Spice]

I never liked that type of reasoning.

It implies those who bear suffering and in pain actually deserve their lot in life.

So you believe in a free pass. You can do, say, be whatever you want without consequence -- if you're careful and lucky?
Would you prefer thinking of someone like Hitler being tormented in hell for all eternity? Or perhaps you feel like what he did is just in the past and it should be accepted that it didn't really matter?

Besides, there's other reasons for suffering and pain in this life. We all have it. You cannot escape from it. It is better to just think you're being picked on by the great cosmos for no reason? Or accept you're not perfect and you will reap what you sow sooner or later?

 

[Twilight Hue]

So you believe in a free pass. You can do, say, be whatever you want without consequence -- if you're careful and lucky?
Would you prefer thinking of someone like Hitler being tormented in hell for all eternity? Or perhaps you feel like what he did is just in the past and it should be accepted that it didn't really matter?

Besides, there's other reasons for suffering and pain in this life. We all have it. You cannot escape from it. It is better to just think you're being picked on by the great cosmos for no reason? Our accept you're not perfect and you will reap what you sow sooner or later?

I don't believe in a cosmic scoreboard of the universe.

When people like Hitler dies, his personality permanently dies with him. I'd say that is likely the best form of justice that can be had.

Karma of one's actions clearly ripple after the source dies but even that will settle at some point.

It's just simple cause and effect, not magic.

 

[shunyadragon]

Believing in the existence of rebirth after death, is rebirth good, or a bad thing ? what is your viewpoint on rebirth ?

Kindly: please do refrain replying to the question if you don't want to believe in the existence of rebirth after death.

Neither it is a hypothetical thing (?).

 

[Shaul]

In discussions about rebirth I don't see people talking about what is happening to the poor mother.

 

[Trailblazer]

90% of the world does not know who Bahaullah was. So, it is very doubtful he was the Christ come in 'his glory'.

You have a belief of what it means to come in his glory so anything short of that cannot be true in your mind.
But it is only a belief you hold. You do not know what it means to come in his glory.

How many people know who Baha'u'llah was is irrelevant. He either was who He claimed to be or not.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

You are absolutely right 'Our beliefs will never change reality, whatever it is.' But reality will be revealed to you when the real Christ appears, because 100% of the world will be aware of it when he does.

That is only a belief you hold. It has not happened so it is only a hope, not a fact.
I believe that in reality Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ. I don't have to hope for something in the future.

Regarding your belief that everyone will know who Christ is when He returns and there will be no mistaking that event:

"... While the Manifestations of God all shine with the splendours of God's Revelation, they can reveal themselves in only two ways. The first is to appear in their naked glory. Should this happen, all human beings would witness their awesome power, would bow before their majesty and would submit their will entirely to God's Viceregent on earth. People would thus become puppets of God and lose their free will; all would follow the path of truth, not by their own volition but by capitulating to the irresistible power of the Manifestation of God………

The only other way that the Manifestations of God can reveal themselves, which ensures the preservation of human free will, is to conceal their divine power behind the veil of human characteristics. Although they possess majestic, divine qualities, it is, according to Bahá’u’lláh, against the law of God for them to reveal these to the generality of mankind. Through this method people can exercise their free will to accept or to reject the Message of God, to live in accordance with His teachings or to disobey Him."

Adib Taherzadeh, The Child of the Covenant, p. 17

 

[Link]

In discussions about rebirth I don't see people talking about what is happening to the poor mother.

I think children are pure and free from evil. Yet, in case of this scenario (rebirth), the child might have sins from another life. I think this is counter-intuitive.

The motherly nature of a woman to believe her child is innocent would be deceptive and based on illusion. I don't think God is deceptive.

 

[Spice]

In discussions about rebirth I don't see people talking about what is happening to the poor mother.

Perhaps you could expand on your interpretation of rebirth?

 

[Link]

Another problem it cheapens life. In case of atheists, they say life of this world is all we got. In case of people who believe there is a next world, still this life is the only life we have to prove ourselves to God. So life is precious.

Yet if innocents are killed, in the scenario there is many rebirths, it hardly matters. They get more chances.

So life becomes almost infinitely more cheap in case of reincarnation. Apathy towards injustice is a lot easier too.

How we live the current life is not a big thing either since many more possible chances. It cheapens life too much.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I believe that in reality Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ. I don't have to hope for something in the future.

God luck in your belief. Too bad you have no hope for something in the future.

 

[CG Didymus]

You are absolutely right 'Our beliefs will never change reality,

Really? It sure seems like what a person believes shapes how they interact with others.

But about rebirth and reincarnation, I like the idea of going through different situations in different bodies. Like when people say what they'd do if they were in some other person's shoes, they could actually live it and see what it is they would do.

But given only one life... it's a lot different where, when, how rich or poor, what color of skin, which religion a person gets born into etc. One chance and the person was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

[Trailblazer]

God luck in your belief. Too bad you have no hope for something in the future.

I have something to hope for in the future because the Promised Day has come.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it ………

What we witness at the present time, during “this gravest crisis in the history of civilization,” recalling such times in which “religions have perished and are born,” is the adolescent stage in the slow and painful evolution of humanity, preparatory to the attainment of the stage of manhood, the stage of maturity, the promise of which is embedded in the teachings, and enshrined in the prophecies, of Bahá’u’lláh. The tumult of this age of transition is characteristic of the impetuosity and irrational instincts of youth, its follies, its prodigality, its pride, its self-assurance, its rebelliousness, and contempt of discipline.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 116-117

 

[Astravalon]

Regarding the concern that the concept of reincarnation cheapens life, I don't
think living more than one lifetime cheapens life any more than living more than
one day would cheapen it. The next life could be viewed as the "tomorrow" of this
one, so to speak. Having a tomorrow doesn't cheapen anything, whether it's days,
weeks, months, years, or lifetimes.

As to whether rebirth is a good or bad thing, it depends on my mood. Right now,
I live very independently, so the idea of returning to having to obey parents,
teachers, go to school, do homework, etc., kind of rubs me the wrong way sometimes.
But I also believe that I'll have a say in how the next life plays out (what's often called
'pre-birth-planning'), so my higher self will, theoretically anyway, co-write whatever
it is that I need to experience. Kind of like signing up for classes. (pick the easy ones,
higher self! lol)

Of course, all that assumes that reincarnation is real; I'm inclined to believe it might be,
but it's not a hill I'd die on.
-

 

[Spice]

Regarding the concern that the concept of reincarnation cheapens life, I don't
think living more than one lifetime cheapens life any more than living more than
one day would cheapen it. The next life could be viewed as the "tomorrow" of this
one, so to speak. Having a tomorrow doesn't cheapen anything, whether it's days,
weeks, months, years, or lifetimes.

As to whether rebirth is a good or bad thing, it depends on my mood. Right now,
I live very independently, so the idea of returning to having to obey parents,
teachers, go to school, do homework, etc., kind of rubs me the wrong way sometimes.
But I also believe that I'll have a say in how the next life plays out (what's often called
'pre-birth-planning'), so my higher self will, theoretically anyway, co-write whatever
it is that I need to experience. Kind of like signing up for classes. (pick the easy ones,
higher self! lol)

Of course, all that assumes that reincarnation is real; I'm inclined to believe it might be,
but it's not a hill I'd die on.
-

I believe that active selection may relate to "I'll see you on the other side" and "soul mates." Of course it's always speculation on what could be that brings hope, comfort, purpose, etc. rather than thinking everything is just a roll of the die.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course, all that assumes that reincarnation is real; I'm inclined to believe it might be,
but it's not a hill I'd die on.

I am not only inclined to believe that reincarnation is false, it is a hill I'd die on.
And I thank God that I will never have to come back to this earth as once was more than enough.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I have something to hope for in the future because the Promised Day has come.

So, Bahaullah died in 1892 and the Promised Day has come just now? Or has it been the Promised Day all along?

 

[Trailblazer]

So, Bahaullah died in 1892 and the Promised Day has come just now? Or has it been the Promised Day all along?

The Day of God, which is the Promised Day, has been promised all along, all throughout the Bible.

“In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 12-14

The Promised Day I was referring to does not refer to 'the day' that Christ returns. The day that Christ returns ushers in the Day of God, which is the age in which the kingdom of God will be built on earth.

The Promised Day is yet to come because Baha'u'llah came and revealed what will be necessary for humans to build the kingdom of God on earth, also known as the new world order. I won't see the fullness of the new world order in my lifetime but I will know that future generations will enjoy its benefits because it will come to pass eventually.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 116-117

 

[Shaul]

Perhaps you could expand on your interpretation of rebirth?

Rebirth isn't a part of my religion so I don't really have an interpretation.