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Is religion required for moksha?

Viraja

Jaya Jagannatha!
How much religion is needed for moksha?

An all-compassionate god, be it any god, is going to reward a person based on his 'mental constitution' - whether it is one of compassion, forgiveness, kindness, charity, truthfulness, industry, and similar virtues.

A religion, by enabling one to think along the lines of the above, in its story about various saints, and in its scriptural rules, thus gradually draws an individual into being a 'perfected soul' eligible for moksha.

Thus, it appears religion is not at all necessary for moksha.. if one is practicing virtuous qualities every day of his being sincerely, over lifetimes, he will definitely be promoted to the state of birthlessness.

What do members feel about this?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Depends what you mean by religion to some degree. Some might say that virtuous living, for example, is religion.
 

KrsnaDasa

Done posting here
Hare Krsna,

In my humble opinion, you need to have devotion to God to attain Moksha. Take that as you will, but I find that having religion helps. What then is religion?

Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam. Religion means the law given by God.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Moksha is just an aspect or side-effect of Samadhi or Cosmic Consciousness. It's a release from the death-rebirth cycle, or Samsara.
Rather than focus on various side effects, let's focus on the underlying phenomenon itself, the expansion of awareness that erases the illusions of time, change and diversity.

This phenomenon is has been reported from everywhere in the world. It's been described throughout recorded history by practitioners of every religion -- and no religion. A left temporal seizure appears to reproduce the experience, as do various "entheogenic" or psychedelic drugs -- albeit temporarily.
No religion or guru is required, though certain things like starvation, injury, meditation, &c seem to induce this type of left temporal seizure with some frequency. Samadhi, as I said before, seems to be a neuroelectric or neurochemical phenomenon.

No faith, religion or devotion required.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Moksha is just an aspect or side-effect of Samadhi or Cosmic Consciousness. It's a release from the death-rebirth cycle, or Samsara.
Rather than focus on various side effects, let's focus on the underlying phenomenon itself, the expansion of awareness that erases the illusions of time, change and diversity.

This phenomenon is has been reported from everywhere in the world. It's been described throughout recorded history by practitioners of every religion -- and no religion. A left temporal seizure appears to reproduce the experience, as do various "entheogenic" or psychedelic drugs -- albeit temporarily.

No religion or guru is required, though certain things like starvation, injury, meditation, &c seem to induce this type of left temporal seizure with some frequency. Samadhi, as I said before, seems to be a neuroelectric or neurochemical phenomenon.

No faith, religion or devotion required.
There is another way to look at these things you raise about brain activities, which to be more specific has to do with fully activating the left amygdala responsible for bliss and love, as opposed to the right amygdala which is fear and aggression. It is seen in seizure patients, but it is not a seizure that is happening. It can happen to anyone, and a seizure may be one of many things that bring on this 'opening'.

Look at it this way, what you see in the brain is a response to the greater underlying perceptual awareness. It is not just an arbitrary event brought on randomly by the brain taking us along for the ride. We already have God-bliss there within us, but it is just not readily accessed because we are distracted in the temporal world of our mind-activities. A peak experience, a God-awareness can open, an Enlightenment experience can happen, Moksha, Kensho, Buddha-mind, Christ-consciousness, etc, in seemingly random ways. Hence the saying that Enlightenment happens by accident. It hits like a lightning bolt. And when the bolt hits, when that accident happens, it changes ones life. But then we fall back into Samsara. We move back into the world, and the experience of that Oneness moves away from us, it seems.

If Enlightenment happens by accident, meditation makes you accident prone. It puts you in the path of it happening. It doesn't "cause" it. It simply removes the obstacles that prevent it. We learn to allow it to be more and more present and aware in our lives, and as such it transforms us permanently into its image, so to speak. Where religion comes in is relatively simple. The practices create a sense of direction and disciplines that put us in that path. The whole person must be transformed, not just having a state experience of God-bliss. Having an Enlightenment experience is just the beginning, actually towards living an Enlightened life. The experience is the easy part, relatively speaking. Bring all aspects of our lives into accord with it, having them all transformed by it, is what brings us into being an Enlightened being.

Just as meditation puts you in the path of a state experience, moral living, devotion, etc, aligns the whole person on this path to transformation and living free. It brings the body and mind and the spirit into alignment and transformation.

Though we can say we "attain" this, really we already are this. It's all already fully there within us, as is evidenced by these momentary and sudden opening to it. It's nothing we achieve that exists outside of us. It's not attained by the seeking ego to add to itself. It is simply opened to and allowed. Letting go of the seeking mind is the hard part and the effort to make. It is an effort to make no effort. Religion hopefully provides the set of practices and disciplines towards that path.
 
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NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist
How much religion is needed for moksha?

An all-compassionate god, be it any god, is going to reward a person based on his 'mental constitution' - whether it is one of compassion, forgiveness, kindness, charity, truthfulness, industry, and similar virtues.

A religion, by enabling one to think along the lines of the above, in its story about various saints, and in its scriptural rules, thus gradually draws an individual into being a 'perfected soul' eligible for moksha.

Thus, it appears religion is not at all necessary for moksha.. if one is practicing virtuous qualities every day of his being sincerely, over lifetimes, he will definitely be promoted to the state of birthlessness.

What do members feel about this?
This is the big question isn't it?

'Religion' isn't really needed for Moksha, nor is a belief in God.

There are many Hatha/Kriya/Raja Yogis out there who just go for meditation, Pranayama, certain Mudras, Bandhas, performing all the things like Yamas and Niyamas (all that 'virtuous living' stuff you are describing)...they are strict vegetarian, celibate and spend countless hours doing Sadhana without the slightest belief in a God whatsoever....it is said these souls can attain Moksha.

Believing in God is just the 'shortcut' way.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I think religion would actually stand in the way of Moksha, its when one is totally silent not clinging to anything, that Moksha releases you from the mind.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Until we attain a state from which we can see moksha clearly as an outcome, we will never know. Until then, it is conjecture at best.
 
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raw_thought

Well-Known Member
I disagree. Consciousness exists. To say that consciousness =a brain state is to say that brain states are the only reality. In other words that consciousness does not exist. To be specific to claim that qualia do not exist is to say that consciousness does not exist.
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
I think that self-awareness, being able to realize our potential and the ability to look within and beyond oneself is what eventually will lead one to moksha/nirvana/enlightenment/liberation/etc. Not necessarily religion itself. Although religion is a nice tool to use, it is not the final means in and of itself.
 
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