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Is Satanism and the Occult Tradition dying?

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Satanism has certainly lost it's influence, at least beyond the minds of the ignorant. It had it's uses but it's kind of fallen out of (into?) grace the way I see it. It's just so overpopulated and over explored, it's hard to even call it occultism anymore. A large majority is made by shockers and angsty teens. More religious Satanism just makes the term seem a simple title. Atheistic Satanism seems to be evolving into archetypal occultism and a more grown up view of the supposed "LHP".

Further, occultism itself seems in danger of falling. Groups spill all their secrets over the net. Orders follow strict - often dogmatic rules and views. The mysterious allure is falling away due to massive quantities of new agers or simple skeptics. Groups like Wiccans can't even qualify as occultists anymore, and groups like CoS, O9A, ToS, etc are being crushed by focusing and image and politics. The minority remaining can't reconcile the modern psychological views of occultism with the overwhelming minority of these new agers, shockers, initiatory orders who overstep their authority, etc.

To me it just seems to be dying. Whether that's good or bad is undecided.
 

Infinitum

Possessed Bookworm
I think one must as whether occultism gains anything from being (as the term suggests) hidden. Just because it's been hidden knowledge and therefore gained its name relates in my opinion more to the need to be hidden than some kind of elitist "Fight Club". Looking at historical Europe, the knowledge spread via manuscripts and quite likely as oral tradition. We know some occult scholars got into trouble with the Church for their writings while others didn't but hey, they wrote down their knowledge and clearly wanted to spread it to others. This was especially true in the Renaissance during the previous occult cultural boom. Looking back from now we obviously can't know what we've lost, but there are strands of occultism that clearly have been part of semi-public knowledge for thousands of years (most notably Hermeticism).

That said, for me when I think about occultism, I think about the study of what is normally hidden. I view the true occultist as an explorer and a scholar, who pushes the boundaries of what we understand of mind, spirit and matter. In that sense many scientists have a touch of occultist to them, especially psychologists. When I read old grimoires, it's this quest of understanding the reality that's the underlying story in all of them. Throughout history most of the population haven't wanted to deal with spirits or magical forces, especially demons or even worse, deities (see my old favourite Abramelin the Mage for an example of all of these). Most people still don't want to, and not all Satanists or LHP people dwell very deep into it either.
 

The Sum of Awe

Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
Staff member
Premium Member
I think that it is only overused in its misunderstood form, as you said shock teenagers. So I wouldn't be concerned about it dying or being too mainstream - people who give it a bad name are most likely the same people who don't impact society majorly anyway
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, but mostly because of Illuminati-type social control structures. Ask yourself what is really important, and then compare it to the bull mainstream media propagates.

Perhaps what is amazing is even though most of the "supposed secrets" are spilled all over the place no one is doing anything with them. Most people are heavily distracted by worthless bull crap. Katy Perry, Lady Gaga, etc.. None of that means anything to YOU personally it's just diversion -- something that interferes with your true destination.

I never became a Satanist because I cared what anyone else was doing. I knew what was important for me. Likewise, I don't care if the greater part of humanity fails to meet it's evolutionary requirements to not get "Darwin'd" in the future. The mainstream has no idea what a Satanist is -- if they did... they would be in love... much like in the way that someone given access to a completely blank canvas immediately feels the influx of ideas which should exist... but do not yet... Having that pure freedom to create that which is not is the true mark of perfection. People seem to get lost with it... but it's so damn simple.
 

kerriscott

Member
Satanism has certainly lost it's influence, at least beyond the minds of the ignorant. It had it's uses but it's kind of fallen out of (into?) grace the way I see it. It's just so overpopulated and over explored, it's hard to even call it occultism anymore.
I'm inclined to agree with you. It's almost mainstream now; tame, and boring; having lost its 'forbidden' charisma, its mystery, and its 'evil' nature, with so many self-professed modern satanists pontificating about it in either a pseudo-intellectual way (e.g. satan as archetype of certain mundane human traits and/or as a philosophy of individual 'liberation' blah blah) or as some sort of egoistic materialistic and carnal way of living or as some sort of self-indulgent nihilism.

Reading a mainstream academic book like The Devil's Party: Satanism in Modernity, published by Oxford University Press in 2012, is enough proof.

groups like CoS, O9A, ToS, etc are being crushed by focusing and image and politics. The minority remaining can't reconcile the modern psychological views of
I agree about the CoS, ToS, etcetera - but not about the O9A, although I can understand why some might lump the O9A with them re 'image' etcetera given the internet shenanigans of certain self-professed O9A people over the past five years.

Personally, I think the O9A still stands out, given that
" (i) the O9A incite and legitimize what those other contemporary occultists and/or self-professed satanists do not, such as human culling, terrorism, involvement with political/religious extremism, criminality, practical physical challenges, and ordeals both esoteric and exoteric;
(ii) the O9A consciously and ruthlessly – via their logos, the code of kindred honour – divide human beings into two types: those 'like themselves' (who possess a certain type of personal, satanic, character or whom they judge have the potential to develop such a character) and all the others, and which others they refer to as mundanes. Thus, according to the sinister tradition of the O9A, mundanes can be treated as a practical resource, as marks (victims, dupes) and as potential opfers.

All these things most certainly make the O9A – as an esoteric philosophy (a sinister tradition) and in terms of its praxises and in terms of those influenced or inspired by it - actually or potentially harmful, destructive, pernicious, baleful, malicious, mischievous, sly, bad in moral character, hard, difficult, misleading, amoral, dangerous, heretical, and extreme." Source - What Makes The Order Of Nine Angles Unique?
Over the past year or so several O9A folks have re-emphasized what the O9A is all about, as in reaffirming the necessity of culling, and as in making it clear that involvement with politics is just an esoteric technique, as in being a temporary 'insight role' than can provide a useful personal learning experience.

The O9A have also re-affirmed the centrality of the seven fold way with its personal exploration of the occult, of the supernatural, of undertaking ceremonial rituals; and also that, for them, Satanism is:
"the acceptance of, or a belief in, the existence a supra-personal being that has been exoterically called Satan; and an acceptance of, or a belief in, this entity having or being capable of having some control over, or some influence upon, human beings, individually or otherwise, with such control often or mostly or entirely being beyond the power of individuals to control by whatever means."​

The last part - "beyond the power of individuals to control by whatever means" - certainly serves to distance the O9A from the majority of modern self-professed satanists who believe "they can somehow control the forces of the cosmos" and that "reality is what they make it or what others have made it, or perceived it to be". Beliefs lambasted by Anton Long many years ago in polemics such as Pretenders, Frauds, and The Order of Nine Angles and Toward Understanding Satanism.
 
Satanism has certainly lost it's influence, at least beyond the minds of the ignorant.

Shows what you know about reality. In real life there are far more ignorant people than non ignorant people. So, no, Satanism is not dying. There's more members than ever!

What's dying and loosing influence and relevance are the established Satanic organizations like the Church of Satan and the Temple of Set. As Newspapers and that dinosaur of a thing called the Yellow Pages are dying, loosing influence, and relevance.

Oh it pains me dearly to see our beloved mundane Satanic institutions die under the weight of its own mundanity and inability to adapt to the change of environment and generational transition! Those fukking millennials are to blame! Oh why can't X Generation stay young forever Satan!?

Oddly though, the Order of Nine Angles seems to be doing okay? An indication is this PDF which has been downloaded 1,000 times: https://archive.org/details/JoiningTheOrderOfNineAngles
 

kerriscott

Member
Oddly though, the Order of Nine Angles seems to be doing okay? An indication is this PDF which has been downloaded 1,000 times: https://archive.org/details/JoiningTheOrderOfNineAngles
Small change. The 'japer9' scribd ONA archive has notched up c. 118,000 downloads, with the Naos MS downloaded 12,569 times from that site alone (to date). The massive 53 Mb compilation The Definitive Guide To The Order of Nine Angles has over 500 downloads in just under three months from that site.

Not to mention that the compilation The Requisite ONA has been downloaded nearly 5,000 times, in the past year, from another site: the omega9alpha site.

Add in the downloads from the o9a dot org site, and sales of printed books such as The Sinister Tradition, and Hostia, via Amazon and other retail outlets, and there seems to be a reasonable level of interest in, or curiosity about, the Order of Nine Angles in the past few years.

Not that - of course - such internet stats, such interest in or curiosity about the O9A, translate into 'members' or 'followers'. But such interest does attract a few individuals of 'the right type'. For as a certain Anton Long said a few years ago:

"We will henceforward as in the past grow slowly, personally, secretly, with the aim being for each of our hidden nexions, Rounwytha or traditional or one of those new fangled ones, to recruit two or three people per decade. Maybe a little more, maybe less. There is no rush, as we all know our goals, aims, will take long durations of causal Time to be achieved – way beyond the life-time of everyone here [...]

We seek to not only preserve, and add to, the knowledge and the understanding that both esoteric and exoteric individual pathei-mathos have bequeathed to us, but to manifest a new type of culture and imbue it with such acausal energies that its archetypes/mythoi will enable, over an Aeonic timescale, a significant evolutionary change in our species, regardless of what occurs in the ‘mundane world’ in respect of such causal things as wars, revolutions, changes of government, and the decline and fall of nations and States. Which is why we are, in everything but name, a secret society within modern mundane societies; and a society slowly but surely, over decades, growing individual by recruited/assimilated individual."​
 
*The 'japer9' scribd ONA archive has notched up c. 118,000 downloads...

*Naos MS downloaded 12,569 times from that site alone (to date).

*The massive 53 Mb compilation The Definitive Guide To The Order of Nine Angles has over 500 downloads in just under three months from that site.

*Not to mention that the compilation The Requisite ONA has been downloaded nearly 5,000 times, in the past year, from another site: the omega9alpha site.

[...]

Not that - of course - such internet stats, such interest in or curiosity about the O9A, translate into 'members' or 'followers'.

Hmm... I love stats like this. Those are interesting numbers...

What do you suppose makes ONA an object/subject of interest or curiosity? The numbers clearly suggests interest or curiosity? ONA is doing something right... but I can't put my finger on it.

I don't know... maybe people in the occult sector are just jaded because a majority of the crap out there are the same old boring stuff over and over again? Maybe ONA is such an oddball, that its interesting.
 

kerriscott

Member
Those are interesting numbers...What do you suppose makes ONA an object/subject of interest or curiosity? The numbers clearly suggests interest or curiosity? ONA is doing something right... but I can't put my finger on it.

I don't know... maybe people in the occult sector are just jaded because a majority of the crap out there are the same old boring stuff over and over again? Maybe ONA is such an oddball, that its interesting.
In the 3 days since I posted those stats, the Japer9 scribd copy of the massive Definitive Guide has alone noticed up another 58 downloads.

As for why all this interest in the O9A, I can only guess. But I'm inclined to think it's because the O9A comes across as quite different from the CoS, ToS, type satanism and occultism that has been hyped so much for the past three or four decades that's it become almost mainstream (IMO it always was tame and law-abiding anyway). In contrast, the O9A comes across as something that may really be 'dark' and 'evil' and possibly even 'dangerous'. Plus, the popularity of the Nightingale series of crime novels by best-selling author Stephen Leather might have helped a bit in recent years!

"The Order of Nine Angles…”
"They’re dangerous people, Jack."
"I guessed as much…The human sacrifice was the clue."

Source - Midnight by Stephen Leather, published by Hodder & Stoughton. ISBN 978144470066​
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
The occult will survive so long as people experience apophenia and Satanism will last as long as there are Conservative parents.

These are entities of reaction that arise due to dissatisfaction with the status quo. They will likely never die completely.
 
In the 3 days since I posted those stats, the Japer9 scribd copy of the massive Definitive Guide has alone noticed up another 58 downloads.

Very interesting. In 4 days this got 20 downloads: https://archive.org/details/JoiningTheOrderOfNineAngles

As for why all this interest in the O9A, I can only guess. But I'm inclined to think it's because the O9A comes across as quite different from the CoS, ToS, type satanism and occultism that has been hyped so much for the past three or four decades that's it become almost mainstream (IMO it always was tame and law-abiding anyway). In contrast, the O9A comes across as something that may really be 'dark' and 'evil' and possibly even 'dangerous'. Plus, the popularity of the Nightingale series of crime novels by best-selling author Stephen Leather might have helped a bit in recent years!
Yeah, I agree. The world cup game is playing... I hate sports and haven't been paying attention. But, analogously, I love to see this competition between institutions like the CoS, ToS, and ONA like a competitive sports game. I personally find it exciting to watch... although, it's a very slow game to watch unfold. But I love to watch things unfold. Wyrd :)

ONA is doing something right. ToS is as good as dead. In 10 years, they'll be dust. The CoS is losing hold... literally. It's invested all of its intellectual capital on X Gen, and has no sense of pedagogy to pass its codification of Satanism to Y Generation. I highly doubt they'll have the ability to pass their stuff to "Z Gen."

Mundane Satanism - or rather the loose collection of mundane Satanists of today's "Satanic Subculture" - is far too liberal to be able to establish a hold or take up root in Y or Z Gen. Liberal here meaning each individual Satanist has this conceptualization that "Satanism" is anything you want it to be. This in itself is fine. We call it "freedom of thought/conscience." But, like a friend of mine [DD] says: "If it [satanism] can mean anything, it means nothing."

But what most of these mundane/modern satanists don't realize is that in general society, when they do practice freedom of thought/belief/conscience, it's done so within the matrix of an established social order/culture... such as "American" culture. And so the culture itself is a Stable foundation which helps generate this "aeonic" continuity of a culture.

Whereas, with something like mundane/modern Satanism, they lack a culture. Culture here, in context to modern satanism would be anything thing that can be practiced. They've thrown out their rituals, their magic, their mythos, and so on. They keep the philosophy... and liberally change that philosophy.

It's unfortunate that we humans are not independent of the cultural roots we have our mortal existence within. The American Westerner here has no real culture of their own. And so, whatever they create - such as a Church of Satan, or whatever - will most likely also have no culture. No mythos, no culture. No culture...

One thing which sets ONA apart from the C/S or ToS is that it originates - has it's roots within - Great Britain, whose people have an actual culture, and an established tradition. And, from what I have seen, most of the people who associate with ONA hail from countries with their own culture and traditions: such as Brazil, Russia, Western Europe, Iceland, etc.
 
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kerriscott

Member
One thing which sets ONA apart from the C/S or ToS is that it originates - has it's roots within - Great Britain, whose people have an actual culture, and an established tradition. And, from what I have seen, most of the people who associate with ONA hail from countries with their own culture and traditions: such as Brazil, Russia, Western Europe, Iceland, etc.
Interesting point, and one I hadn't considered before. But thinking about it, you might be on to something.
 

ScottySatan

Well-Known Member
Groups like Wiccans can't even qualify as occultists anymore, and groups like CoS, O9A, ToS, etc are being crushed by focusing and image and politics. The minority remaining can't reconcile the modern psychological views of occultism with the overwhelming minority of these new agers, shockers, initiatory orders who overstep their authority, etc.

I think I'm older than you and can input a little bit about what happened in the past.

There was a huge uprise in Satanic subculture around when Rosemary's Baby (1968) and The Exorcist (1973) came out. Popular bands had names like Black Sabbath. Satanism as a populist expression was bigger then than now...in the media.

Satanism is big again now...in the media that you pay attention to. Media is personalised now. Go back and read the current output of the media outlets that date back to 1970 (New York Times, CBS NEWS, etc) and you'll find not as much mention of Satanism now as back then. In other words, Satanism is not so mainstream as you suggest, but even if so, it's gotten over worse than this.

I'll agree that denouncing god isn't a shocker anymore since so many celebrities have done it continuously since the 60's. And I agree that the name Satan has lost some of it's power from overuse. Using the name Satan outside has a lot more power now in this time in America since 9/11 now that Jesus is very fashionable again. Enjoy it. If you live in Spain, sorry, no one gives a **** anymore; old churches are restaurants and theaters now.
 
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1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I think I'm older than you and can input a little bit about what happened in the past.

There was a huge uprise in Satanic subculture around when Rosemary's Baby (1968) and The Exorcist (1973) came out. Popular bands had names like Black Sabbath. Satanism as a populist expression was bigger then than now...in the media.

Satanism is big again now...in the media that you pay attention to. Media is personalised now. Go back and read the current output of the media outlets that date back to 1970 (New York Times, CBS NEWS, etc) and you'll find not as much mention of Satanism now as back then. In other words, Satanism is not so mainstream as you suggest, but even if so, it's gotten over worse than this.

I'll agree that denouncing god isn't a shocker anymore since so many celebrities have done it continuously since the 60's. And I agree that the name Satan has lost some of it's power from overuse. Using the name Satan outside has a lot more power now in this time in America since 9/11 now that Jesus is very fashionable again. Enjoy it. If you live in Spain, sorry, no one gives a **** anymore; old churches are restaurants and theaters now.

Thanks for the input. I don't think many of us were in the golden days.
 
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