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Is science against the Revealed Religion?

paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
gnostic said:
You are being evasive by making apologetic excuses.
The quran.com website provide the original Arabic text, a transliteration and 6 possible English translations:
  1. Yusuf Ali,
  2. Pickthall,
  3. Shakir,
  4. Sahih International,
  5. Dr Ghali,
  6. Muhsin Khan
Back at post 160, I had replied with some of those quotes of translated verses. These back up what I am saying. If you going to mount a counter claim to refute me, then the best way to this, is provide more translations than I have, to prove to me that I am wrong.
All 6 translations use "ant" or "ants", "bird" and "birds", and "hoopoe", all of which are little first letters, when in the middle or end of a sentence. That mean that all 6 translations verified my interpretations that these are not humans in the events about Solomon in the Qur'an.
It is about verification of claims.
Now unless you can demonstrably show 6 or more translations that use capitalised 1st letter as if they were personal names of individual human or group of people like family name and tribal name (eg Ant, Ants, Bird, Birds and Hoopoe), then I will be willing to admit that I am wrong.
But can you admit you are wrong if you can't give me 6 different English translations those passages about Solomon and the birds (or hoopoe) and ants that are capitalised as names?
I have provided a website where you get all 6 translations on those verses, can you meet me half-way by providing at least the same number of translations?
Right now, all you have done is provide me no verifiable sources, other than your apologetic excuses.
That's not good enough. Prove it or admit that you were wrong.
Click to expand...
One did not check on internet the word "numl" or "namal"? Any good reason for that?Please
Please view the following:


Namal Lake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namal_Lake
Namal Lake is located in Rikhi, a village on one corner of the Namal valley in Mianwali, Punjab, Pakistan. It was formed following the construction of Namal Dam ...
Namal Dam Mianwali,Documentary - YouTube
▶ 9:25
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFnQA6fl1PE
This one is the detailed video of Namal DamMianwali,Pakistan.The Dam was constructed by British Govt...In
Namal valley hill torrent victims await relief - Newspaper ...
www.dawn.com/news/1199204
Aug 8, 2015 - MIANWALI: The Namal lake water is overflowing the dam. ... He said the main road of the Namal valley from Ban Hafiz JI, Sakesar, known as ...
Namal College, near Namal Lake, Mianwali - Pakistan
pk.geoview.info/namal_college_near_namal_lake_mianwali,58133981p
The picture with the title Namal College, near Namal Lake, Mianwali was taken by the photographer Najam Shahwani on 29 August 2011 and published over ..

Statistics and meaning of name Namal
Usage: 75% firstname, 25% surname.
Namalfirst name was found 79 times in 17 different countries.
SurnameNamalis used at least 25 times in at least 14 countries.
Gender of firstname Namal is 0% feminine and 100% masculine.
Given names
Fahrettin Namal (1)
Husniye Namal (1)
Hasan Namal (1)
Sevak Namal (1)
Hairmeik Namal (1)

Family names
Namal Senasinghe (2)
Namal Lokuge (2)
Namal Perera (2)
Namal Gunathilake (1)
Namal Weerasuriya (1)
Namal Uduwala (1)
Namal Samarakoon (1)
Namal Senarath (1)
Namal Taha (1)
Namal Lanka ( ... +more
This is on Google

Regards
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
paarsurrey said:
One did not check on internet the word "numl" or "namal"? Any good reason for that?Please
Click to expand...

You had earlier today (post 176, in regarding to my earlier post in 172) stated that translators can get their translations wrong, and I agreed, and I had replied that's why I don't rely on just ONE translation.

I told you why when I had quoted the things about Solomon and his abilities to talk to animals in the Qur'an, back in post 160, you stated that the these are not animals, but names of person or people. But I had replied that if birds and ants were people or tribes of people, then the translations of those to English, SHOULD HAVE capitalised the 1st letters (ie "Birds" and "Ants") to indicate they were name, but none of the translations that I had access to use them as names.

I didn't focus on namal, because it had little to do with what I have been postings about.

Once you side-tracking the debate, by mentioning namal, with some links that I don't have the inclination to read, unless it relate to something we have been discussing earlier.

You are still being very evasive, and refuse to provide sources or translations that these tribes of humans with names like animals (with capitalised "Ants", "Birds" or "Hoopoe". Instead of trying to pull me in another direction, why not try to stick to the topic?
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Post #156
"Can Solomon understand and communicate with ants?"
and one gave its reference from the Holy Quran : Chapter 27, which is named
Al-Naml النَّمل, that is translated literally "The Ants".

So one should bear with searching as to what it does mean.
Hence the search for the word "namal". Please
Regards
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
paarsurrey said:
Post #156
"Can Solomon understand and communicate with ants?"
and one gave its reference from the Holy Quran : Chapter 27, which is named
Al-Naml النَّمل, that is translated literally "The Ants".

So one should bear with searching as to what it does mean.
Hence the search for the word "namal". Please
Regards
Click to expand...
That the title to the chapter or surah, which can be capitalised.

Titles of the books and chapters are usually written like names, with capitalised first letters for words, but normal use to naml (ants) in paragraphs would be in lower case.

In the verses or paragraphs of that chapter, it was written with lower case "ants" and "ant".

My all time favourite ancient literature is Homer's "The Odyssey".

Since it is the title of book, the normal English convention would be to capitalise "Odyssey". But if I was to write a normal sentence containing the word odyssey, I would write as non-title, lower-case word, eg

My sister went on 6 week odyssey of the Mediterranean.​

And your examples are names of some person or places with namal as names, therefore they are written with capital N. Namal Lake and Namal Damn are names of places, therefore these are treated as names, so the they written with capital N.

If I called a street Ants Street, then I would write them in capitalised 1st letter.

But what are written in verses in verse 27:18 are just normal sentences in a normal paragraph:

[QUOTE="Qur'an 27:18]Pickthall
Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving.

Sahih International
Until, when they came upon the valley of the ants, an ant said, "O ants, enter your dwellings that you not be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they perceive not."

Yusuf Ali
At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."[/QUOTE]

As you can from this quotes, they are not treated as names or tribal names, so they were written with lower-case "a" for "ant" and "ants".

Of course, in the Pickthall translation, it is written "Valley of the Ants", while the other translations don't, because Pickthall is treating it as name-place.

Verse 18 are using the words non-names, therefore Solomon was communicating with insect - ants, not with humans.

You are confusing the treatments of words that are names and titles with words that are non-name or non-title the same. Your examples just prove your ignorance of when to treat words as names, and when not to.
 
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paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
One must understand that the Recitation/Quran is primarily a verbal message from G-d and it is phonetic, there are no capitalizations in speech.
Regards
 
gnostic

gnostic

The Lost One
paarsurrey said:
One must understand that the Recitation/Quran is primarily a verbal message from G-d and it is phonetic, there are no capitalizations in speech.
Click to expand...

LOL

Recited or not, it is still written not as names in those verses. They are translated into English as insects (ant or ants) and birds (including the hoopoe, which is obviously a bird too).

The Jews, as I have said before have a folklore tale of Solomon being able to speak to and understand birds and ants. This is where Muhammad must have heard the well-known story from, from Jews who living in the Arabian peninsula.

And before you ignorantly say that Muhammad was illiterate, many people at that time learn stories by listening. It doesn't take rocket-scientist to know there are many ways to learn, and reading is only just one way.

How do you think Muhammad learn about the merchant trade - he learned by listening and watching his uncle, not by reading?

A lot of trades at that time, between masters and apprentices, and between fathers and sons, were taught through watching and listening.

Do you understand how a speaker teach a multitude of people assemble at one place? A public speaker would do so through public speaking, not by reading. Audience are supposed to listen what a speaker is saying.

The whole illiteracy argument made by Muslims about Muhammad is a weak one.
 
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