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Is Science Better Than Religion?

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
There essentially is no need for anything.
I guess so, in a holistic, philosophical kind of way. But there is a need for something when considering rational inquiry, which is the subject we are debating. To assert a conclusion is rational is to assert it follows certain criteria, one of which is the need for rational justification.

The mind wants to say that there is a need. Something just IS and truly doesn't need knowledge "of" it. It's the experience of it. Science creates rules and limitations, and anything outside of these rules and limitations, one is labeled and deemed a heretic, it is no different than religions.
Wrong on all counts. The only "limitations" science has are the limitations of our current access to knowledge. Our ability and capacity to observe and understand the Universe is increasing. Science is not a box that asserts only that which inside of the box is true and real. Science is a grand and elaborate microscope that we are continually adjusting, increasing in scale and performance, that tells us a great deal about what little it observes, but asserts nothing beyond that until it is large and powerful enough to observe it. That metaphor was torturous, and I hope I never have to use it again...

Why would anyone want control and limitations on their own conscious experience?
Because controlling our irrational nature by focusing on developing a rational system of inquiry had demonstrably and dramatically improved our lives for the better, and has the potential to improve our understanding beyond all known limitations. Not long ago, we would have considered heavier-than-air travel impossible. Now, flight is so ubiquitous as to be entirely mundane.

It's a hindrance being attached to only any system of control.
The only thing that hinders us is ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with science, I love science, it is beneficial, but it doesn't control and limit me.
Good, because it shouldn't and isn't trying to. Science is a method of examining the world around us. It is demonstrably the most effective and best method of doing so, but you are free to adhere or not adhere to it as you wish.

When one starts to say "provide evidence," "show evidence" they only are talking about the system of science, creating rules and limitations under that system.
So, are you suggesting that the very idea of asking for justification for a particular claim is unreasonable? In that case, I claim that you are an alien sent to earth to suck the brains out of elephants.

Clearly, reality and much else... Goes beyond science.
Since you think this is "clearly" true, you have must think you have reason to believe it is true. So, apparently, you do think reason and evidence are useful.

Science in the mind of many has become a controlling deity itself.
And those people are ignorant of it.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I guess so, in a holistic, philosophical kind of way. But there is a need for something when considering rational inquiry, which is the subject we are debating. To assert a conclusion is rational is to assert it follows certain criteria, one of which is the need for rational justification.


Wrong on all counts. The only "limitations" science has are the limitations of our current access to knowledge. Our ability and capacity to observe and understand the Universe is increasing. Science is not a box that asserts only that which inside of the box is true and real. Science is a grand and elaborate microscope that we are continually adjusting, increasing in scale and performance, that tells us a great deal about what little it observes, but asserts nothing beyond that until it is large and powerful enough to observe it. That metaphor was torturous, and I hope I never have to use it again...


Because controlling our irrational nature by focusing on developing a rational system of inquiry had demonstrably and dramatically improved our lives for the better, and has the potential to improve our understanding beyond all known limitations. Not long ago, we would have considered heavier-than-air travel impossible. Now, flight is so ubiquitous as to be entirely mundane.


The only thing that hinders us is ignorance.


Good, because it shouldn't and isn't trying to. Science is a method of examining the world around us. It is demonstrably the most effective and best method of doing so, but you are free to adhere or not adhere to it as you wish.


So, are you suggesting that the very idea of asking for justification for a particular claim is unreasonable? In that case, I claim that you are an alien sent to earth to suck the brains out of elephants.


Since you think this is "clearly" true, you have must think you have reason to believe it is true. So, apparently, you do think reason and evidence are useful.


And those people are ignorant of it.

No one said science itself has limitations. Science is not the mind. Two and separate. Doctrined into only science places limitations on the observer's conscious "mind." Limitations on ones experience is polar opposite of limitations of science. I can experience pure and genuine love with no need for science to explain and define it and have knowledge "of" love. Saturation and hindrance are unnecessary and problematic. It's evident that the physical and material world create problems, why would I or anyone want to live in a physical and material trained mind? If anyone preaches a physical, material, and animal world... and also tries to preach an objective and loving world at the same time, it will not work. This is ignorance (unconsciously aware of something.) It creates divide and more problems and the lack of conscious awareness. It is taking one assumptive, dividing, biased extreme without finding the middle and solution.

"Asserting nothing beyond that" is control and limitation. I can know all that which IS, NOW, in the present moment, and experience in this life. . Without being limited and having to wait for promissary gaps to be filled or without assuming anything. That which IS never has needed reason, the mind gets in the way.

If someone "assumed" there would be planes and flying not long ago... They would have been labeled crazy and a mystic and an ignorant idiot because science has yet discovered the new age tech. Also shows the infinite potential of the mind when it's not limited.

"Current access to knowledge." Where is the source for that knowledge? Ancients knew of DNA being "in-formed" consciously and writing about cosmic serpents and twins and ladders. They didn't need knowledge "of," that had something better, knowledge and experience. Even having the luxury of all of this advanced technology and the revelation of knowledge "of" things, many are still unconscious/blinded (ignorant) of truth by a clouded mind. Using scientific law, all knowledge would have to derive from an external source and be received by the internal source (brain). To say knowledge is processed and derives from the brain as the initial source is an illogical contradiction in science. Can't have it both ways. While science waits on "future" access to knowledge "of" this, contradicting it's laws by assuming knowledge "of" anything is derived from the brain would be by blind faith alone and circular reasoning. Using the mechanical approached and measure and definition to anything with science, I will ask how something "new" by its own definition of "new" can arise with scientific law soley arising in the brain as its only and derivative source without being completely hypocritical?

It's only unreasonable to one who has the need for reason.

I have no needs. I don't need a reason or definition or measure for anything. Without a reason, definition, measure... Guess what? It still IS. Doesn't change.

Reason is separate from just "being" and that which "IS."

There is reason/evidence and there is reasoning/evident.

One set is under limit and control, the other has infinite potential.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Lol, the redundant "credible source" since credibility means anything.

DNA

Not a credible source. You linked an anonymous website with no citations in it's own work. It is word salad retrofitting vague ideas from the past into a well defined and detailed modern idea.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Not a credible source. You linked an anonymous website with no citations in it's own work. It is word salad retrofitting vague ideas from the past into a well defined and detailed modern idea.

No citations? NASA and scientists and research aren't even considered "credible" anymore to an ignorant brain?
It's not credible to you because you're uncomfortable with anything out of your comfort zone.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
No citations? NASA and scientists and research aren't even considered "credible" anymore to an ignorant brain?
It's not credible to you because you're uncomfortable with anything out of your comfort zone.

There were not citations but quotes. You confuse quotations with citations, which is taught in grade school. More so Narby has not published his ideas in peer-reviewed journals but only in popular science books. He avoided his burden to science but dodging it.

A quote is "Darwin says X". A citation is for the quote from the source. Author, book, page, edition, etc. Merely having a quote says nothing regarding if the quote is factual or as I suspect given Narby's lack of academic work for his views, quoting-mining. More so he uses the quote to retrofit vague ideas to support his religious views. Here is one of his more absurd claims paraphrasing. A snake coils, DNA is a coil, therefore people that believe in snake magic communicate with DNA. He only quotes his own book as he is the only one buying his idea. Let see some medical studies support his views not quotes from his own book... Let see the experiment in which drinking a hallucinogen communicate with patient by DNA. Hint, you wont as he never did the experiment to confirm his idea, he accepted his idea as correct as it confirmed his religious views.

Also what the quotes that are not his own do not say what you nor he claim they say nor do they support his claim nor your own.
 
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Unification

Well-Known Member
There were not citations but quotes. You confuse quotations with citations, which is taught in grade school. More so Narby has not published his ideas in peer-reviewed journals but only in popular science books. He avoided his burden to science but dodging it.

A quote is "Darwin says X". A citation is for the quote from the source. Author, book, page, edition, etc. Merely having a quote says nothing regarding if the quote is factual or as I suspect given Narby's lack of academic work for his views, quoting-mining.

Ah, your own precision rules, definitions, and control. Well in that case, I stay void of those types of religions. The ones trying to confine others within their own boundaries of robotic limitations and ego.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Ah, your own precision rules, definitions, and control. Well in that case, I stay void of those types of religions. The ones trying to confine others within their own boundaries of robotic limitations and ego.

No its the rules by which Narby as an anthropologist was taught to follow, rules his peers with credibility follow, rule by which we determine if an hypothesis is acceptable and the rules by which a hypothesis becomes a theory. So Narby completely failed to follow these rules thus showing his ideas have no credibility as these rules would provide insight into the reliability of the idea and it's accuracy. I am sorry if Narby can not live up to the standards of his field and education. Perhaps try to find your confirmation bias from someone that has standards.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
There were not citations but quotes. You confuse quotations with citations, which is taught in grade school. More so Narby has not published his ideas in peer-reviewed journals but only in popular science books. He avoided his burden to science but dodging it.

A quote is "Darwin says X". A citation is for the quote from the source. Author, book, page, edition, etc. Merely having a quote says nothing regarding if the quote is factual or as I suspect given Narby's lack of academic work for his views, quoting-mining. More so he uses the quote to retrofit vague ideas to support his religious views. Here is one of his more absurd claims paraphrasing. A snake coils, DNA is a coil, therefore people that believe in snake magic communicate with DNA. He only quotes his own book as he is the only one buying his idea. Let see some medical studies support his views not quotes from his own book... Let see the experiment in which drinking a hallucinogen communicate with patient by DNA. Hint, you wont as he never did the experiment to confirm his idea, he accepted his idea as correct as it confirmed his religious views.

Also what the quotes that are not his own do not say what you nor he claim they say nor do they support his claim nor your own.

"Burden to science." Why would any free, conscious being want a burden or control or be limited to anyone or anything?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
"Burden to science." Why would any free, conscious being want a burden or control or be limited to anyone or anything?

If he is attempting to make a scientific theory then he has certain requirements to meet. If he does not wish to make these statements and meet his burden then you can not longer consider his views scientific nor use it as a claim.

All you have demonstrated is you accept pseudoscience, call it science then complain when it does not meet the requirements to be considered a scientific theory then retreat back to pseudoscience as if nothing happened.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I'm more advanced than a machine, finding it impossible to communicate with a stone.

Your POE is getting to deep.

You talk in philosophical circles so your opinion can mean anything and you can change it to mean what ever you imagine.

Sorry debates don't give you the freedom of imagination. CREDIBLE sources are required.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Who cares, it is not about you.



Provide sources, this is a debate, not an imaginary place to play.

Never was. Stop making it about me. It's about your emotional need for what your machine calls credible sources repetitively.

No amount of oil can fix a fractured machine.

So debate, what didn't you like about what was stated in the link? Does it intrude on your religion?
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Your POE is getting to deep.

You talk in philosophical circles so your opinion can mean anything and you can change it to mean what ever you imagine.

Sorry debates don't give you the freedom of imagination. CREDIBLE sources are required.

Provide sources how freedom of imagination can exist without defying your religion. Until you can, nothing can be debated.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
If he is attempting to make a scientific theory then he has certain requirements to meet. If he does not wish to make these statements and meet his burden then you can not longer consider his views scientific nor use it as a claim.

All you have demonstrated is you accept pseudoscience, call it science then complain when it does not meet the requirements to be considered a scientific theory then retreat back to pseudoscience as if nothing happened.

Provide sources as to how pseudo-science can even exist in my physical brain of scientific chemicals. It's impossible, but until you can, without assumptive circular logic, there is no such thing as pseudo-science according to science. Pseudo-science does not meet the requirements under scientific law.
 
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