Is Science Better Than Religion?

[JayJayDee]

Im educated in some science and more in religion.

You have no academic education and fight both ?

Outhouse, your constant reference to your idolised academia means nothing. I have zero confidence in your academics who are as subject to error as anyone else. They could be dead wrong in their assumptions...they have been many times.

You have studied "some" science? And that makes you an expert on the subject? Really? What you actually demonstrate is great faith, which is admirable if it was directed the right way.

You have studied "religion"? Does that make you an expert on the Bible too? If you have considered Christendom's concept of Christianity and creation, then no wonder you rail against it...so do I.

I am not a "creationist", I believe in an Intelligent Designer of all things who created the earth and the universe millions of years ago.
The creative "days" could not have been 24 hour periods...why would they be? God is not confined to time dictated by the earth's rotation.
My beliefs probably do not fit an "official" definition of ID either....but I believe what the Bible actually says...not what some people think it says. I take the same approach to evolution.

I read what scientists themselves write about this topic and I am unconvinced because of the language they use to prove their theory. It is not the language of established facts, it is the language of wishful thinking and educated guessing. It is couched in terms designed to make it sound like fact...when it isn't. If you would give it an honest appraisal, instead of a defensive one, you would see it yourself.

 

[JayJayDee]

I have evidence for everything I believe. You have believed lies of people attempting to discredit many sciences. Believing in god has nothing to do with it. I know plenty of people who believe in god and manage to accept reality and evidence just fine. As far as the mechanisms go that determine what it is that we hold to be "true" we are polar opposites.

Yes we are polar opposites, but neither of us has actual proof for our beliefs. The mechanisms do not alter what common sense dictates. You look for a way to make your belief plausible to yourself and I do the same. But I have answers that science cannot provide as my previous post to you demonstrates. You have no answers for those questions in your belief system...do you? If you do, I would love to hear them.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Yes we are polar opposites, but neither of us has actual proof for our beliefs. The mechanisms do not alter what common sense dictates. You look for a way to make your belief plausible to yourself and I do the same. But I have answers that science cannot provide as my previous post to you demonstrates. You have no answers for those questions in your belief system...do you? If you do, I would love to hear them.

"Proof" no. "evidence" yes.

The questions you had were all nonsensical. We aren't programmed to want paradise. For example people who get everything they want routinely get incredibly depressed. We are wired to want to work and to achieve things and then those achievements will wear off and we will need to feel that satisfaction of accomplishment again. Just about every measurable statistic states that we are getting better not worse.

 

[JayJayDee]

"Proof" no. "evidence" yes.

Semantics? Evidence convicts because it is used as "proof" of something......circumstantial evidence is not always admissible. Would you like to be tried on circumstantial evidence if your life depended on it?

The questions you had were all nonsensical. We aren't programmed to want paradise.

So every paradise-like location on earth that is now a jungle of high rise buildings is no indicator whatsoever that humans have a natural leaning towards enjoying in paradise conditions?

For example people who get everything they want routinely get incredibly depressed.

You know why? Because they think that material things make them happy. What the Bible teaches as the way to true happiness is "giving" not "getting". Rich people are miserable because they have swallowed a lie. Their selfish existence is a recipe for depression. Philanthropists are the happy ones.....though the ungrateful put spoilers even on that.

We are wired to want to work and to achieve things and then those achievements will wear off and we will need to feel that satisfaction of accomplishment again.

Yes we are wired for meaningful work. What task did God assign to humans in the beginning? It wasn't to sit around in the garden in a hammock eating plums all day. There were told to have families and to "subdue the earth" outside the garden. Imagine what the earth would look like today if the mandate had been carried out? The whole world would resemble the garden of Eden. Humans of the unselfish kind would share the planet and their goods to the benefit of others....a recipe for happiness.

Just about every measurable statistic states that we are getting better not worse.

By what stretch of whose imagination is the world, or the activities of mankind getting better? What rock do you live under?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Semantics? Evidence convicts because it is used as "proof" of something......circumstantial evidence is not always admissible. Would you like to be tried on circumstantial evidence if your life depended on it?

Evidence is information that can be accumulated to make educated guess of varying levels of credibility. "Proof" means a silver bullet absolute evidence that cannot be refuted. For evolution that is redoubtably DNA. If there was but one single shred of circumstantial evidence I wouldn't trust it. But tends of thousands with predictions that have been independently verified across dozens of fields of science all coming together to the exact same conclusions. I think that gives it a good chance.

So every paradise-like location on earth that is now a jungle of high rise buildings is no indicator whatsoever that humans have a natural leaning towards enjoying in paradise conditions?

I didn't say that we don't enjoy climates and certain attributes in our surroundings. But those that have "everything" that are rich that do have whatever it is that they desire quickly grow bored of it. Those that are satisfied with their lives do it accomplishing something.

You know why? Because they think that material things make them happy. What the Bible teaches as the way to true happiness is "giving" not "getting". Rich people are miserable because they have swallowed a lie. Their selfish existence is a recipe for depression. Philanthropists are the happy ones.....though the ungrateful put spoilers even on that.

Giving helps. It gives you a sense of accomplishment.

Yes we are wired for meaningful work. What task did God assign to humans in the beginning? It wasn't to sit around in the garden in a hammock eating plums all day. There were told to have families and to "subdue the earth" outside the garden. Imagine what the earth would look like today if the mandate had been carried out? The whole world would resemble the garden of Eden. Humans of the unselfish kind would share the planet and their goods to the benefit of others....a recipe for happiness.

Actually that was our original plot in life according to your religion. But now you seem to be backtracking on what you said. Are we hard wired for work or for pleasure?

By what stretch of whose imagination is the world, or the activities of mankind getting better? What rock do you live under?

I live on the 3rd rock from the sun. And almost literally every statistic out there. Murders are down. Rapes are down. Healthcare is up. Lifespans are up. Happiness is actually been shown to have increased. War is down. Killing is down in general. Poverty is down. Education is up. Teen pregnancies are down. Every measurable form of "quality of life" is up.

 

[McBell]

I have no idea what you are talking about....be specific as to what you consider sloppy? ...and btw, I don't "read" scripture...

You made and then voraciously attached a strawman you made from what outhouse posted.

I am curious if this type of sloppiness is how you read your scriptures.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You made and then voraciously attached a strawman you made from what outhouse posted.

I am curious if this type of sloppiness is how you read your scriptures.

So you claim I made and then voraciously (gotta love that, makes me feel hungry..lol) attached a strawman I made from what outhouse posted

Do you realize that you are not making sense, not providing the specifics asked for, plus repeating yourself....in the quote, you are asked to be specific, and you now once again make the same vague unsubstantiated accusation about sloppiness without explaining specifically what the offending voraciously attached strawman is.... Until you make a coherent explanation with specifics....I do not know what the strawman you say I made is....so come clean and quote it?

 

[McBell]

So you claim I made and then voraciously (gotta love that, makes me feel hungry..lol) attached a strawman I made from what outhouse posted

Do you realize that you are not making sense, not providing the specifics asked for, plus repeating yourself....in the quote, you are asked to be specific, and you now once again make the same vague unsubstantiated accusation about sloppiness without explaining specifically what the offending voraciously attached strawman is.... Until you make a coherent explanation with specifics....I do not know what the strawman you say I made is....so come clean and quote it?

Where did outhouse make the claim that all mythology is without meaningful truth?

.....but there are many who would disagree that all mythology is without some meaningful truth..

 

[psychoslice]

If I had to do away with religion or science, of course I would do away with religion, I am mentally ill, I had cancer that surgery helped, if there was no science I would be dead long ago, and I think that would be the case with millions more, praise the lord for science, can someone give me a Hallelujah, please.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Where did outhouse make the claim that all mythology is without meaningful truth?

Sequence goes...

Outhouse..."Where does mythology come from?"

Ben...."Mythology come from stories and cultural beliefs associated with many aspects of existence...from the personal to the cosmic..."

Outhouse...."That's right based on their ignorance of the natural world. Its how we ended up with creation mythology." (Note from ben d....this statement from outhouse is not conditional....mythology is based on their ignorance of the natural world...

Ben...."You are only speaking of your own opinion...and with a very broad brush......which you are welcome to.....but there are many who would disagree that all mythology is without some meaningful truth.."

So I stand by what I said... I am certain that there are many who do not think that all mythology is based on ignorance of the natural world..,for if it were so....mythology would be without any meaningful truth....

Your reading skills and comprehension need upgrading...and ironically it turns out that your post was the real strawman.... for you have falsely represented my post as a strawman.....lol

 

[Smart_Guy]

I believe they are of different natures to be compared to each other in a general way like that. To me religion is, for example, important for believing and morals (clearly not that I mean only religion gives morals) and science is, again for example, important for concrete knowledge.

I don't think the question is accurate.

Just my 0.02$

 

[outhouse]

Sequence goes...

You moved goal post, and stated I said things I did not.

 

[outhouse]

. I have zero confidence in your academics

Yes I know.

Fanaticism hates education and knowledge

 

[outhouse]

And that makes you an expert on the subject? Really?

I require honesty out of those I debate.

Show me where I claimed to be a expert?

 

[outhouse]

I believe in an Intelligent Designer

Believe in what ever man made concept you want.


But ID is pseudoscience, a modern man made concept and has no scientific or biblical backing what so ever. Unless extreme amounts of imagination are used and applied to both science and the bible.

 

[outhouse]

I read what scientists themselves write about this topic and I am unconvinced

We don't care what you believe or do not believe.

Fanaticism and fundamentalism always refuse credible education in favor of faith and imagination.

 

[outhouse]

Oh oh....the :unsubstantiated bot" is back...lol..

Dealing with you is like dealing with a bucket of worms....are you capable of an original thought.. That's what comes from fanatical atheism...ignorance as to what and who your are in the context of absolute existence. An obsessive self identification with form is the greatest form of ignorance there is as it leads to the delusion that Plato's 'shadows on the cave wall' is reality...

Personal attacks like yours are a sign of weakness.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If I had to do away with religion or science, of course I would do away with religion, I am mentally ill, I had cancer that surgery helped, if there was no science I would be dead long ago, and I think that would be the case with millions more, praise the lord for science, can someone give me a Hallelujah, please.

Of course, the option to do away with either is not really available, except in our conceptual mind....but I can see your point if you did not accept the reality of reincarnation.. Still, I am very sorry to hear of your terrible suffering in this life....and wish you all the best going forward.....God bless...Hallelujah...

 

[McBell]

Sequence goes...

Outhouse..."Where does mythology come from?"

Ben...."Mythology come from stories and cultural beliefs associated with many aspects of existence...from the personal to the cosmic..."

Outhouse...."That's right based on their ignorance of the natural world. Its how we ended up with creation mythology." (Note from ben d....this statement from outhouse is not conditional....mythology is based on their ignorance of the natural world...

Ben...."You are only speaking of your own opinion...and with a very broad brush......which you are welcome to.....but there are many who would disagree that all mythology is without some meaningful truth.."

So I stand by what I said... I am certain that there are many who do not think that all mythology is based on ignorance of the natural world..,for if it were so....mythology would be without any meaningful truth....

Your reading skills and comprehension need upgrading...and ironically it turns out that your post was the real strawman.... for you have falsely represented my post as a strawman.....lol

And yet you do not show where outhouse made the claim...
But "I" am the one who needs to work on reading comprehension?

 

[outhouse]

Science explains nature.

Religion wrote about it using mythology because they were ignorant to many aspects of nature.